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Why do you hate pirates?

Discussion in 'PvP' started by lyosha, Mar 19, 2012.

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  1. lyosha

    lyosha Member

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    Id like to hear your guys thoughts/comments on why pirates in space hated and pkers in PVP4 honored?

    Personally i love pirates(let the -rep's reign), and mostly because they don't complain about the return rates, guess what... no return rates in space. =)

    In space it takes skill with aim, takes a steady hand, controlled nerves, sense of direction, awareness of all surroundings and multiple calculations in your mind while chasing down/fighting prey.

    In pvp4 it takes the biggest gun/best armor, basically if you have a fat wallet... you'll win, no need for good aim, no need to be aware of surroundings or anything, hey even if you exploit people care less about it than being looted in space.

    This is why I think pirates are hated:

    This game is not really meant to be an FPS game, "ubers" here are defined by wealth more than by "personal skill", even "skill" in this game relates to how much money you have burned.

    So naturally.... ubers are pissed because their money does not help them in space, it just gets taken from them.

    Open for discussion =):whistle:
     
  2. rick_janson

    rick_janson Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    The biggest argument I think you'll find is that PVP4 is optional. PVP 3 is optional. Zomhattan on RT is optional. You can go around them if you don't want to go through. Space isn't optional. You can't go around it to avoid it.

    "Ubers" most definitely have the skills to back up their money. It's not the money, but the money combined with the high skills. You could be loaded with money and still not be an "uber" player.

    Pirates are hated because they exploit the non-optional PVP known as Space to steal real world money from other players. End of story.
     
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  3. Elford

    Elford Member

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    This games is based on REAL money, not imaginary game currency. If you take REAL money from me you are a thief.
    I choose to not go to PVP4. If I want to go to another Planet I have no alternative to going lootable through space.
    Its all about choice.
     
  4. lyosha

    lyosha Member

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    So with that reasoning, all pkers in pvp4 are also thiefs?

    This is what i dont understand, you do have a choice to take a mothership, to wait pirates out and dodge them, to get better at aim and take a pirate out yourself, or to just not bring loot to space.... Just like you have a choice to go into pvp4 or not.

    When i got looted, i didnt complain, i went out and started practicing my quad-wing skills.

    MA made it this way BY DESIGN. Space is meant to be harsh to make economies on other planets thrive, to make planet specific resources have a good markup, otherwise all MUs would be the same on all planets creating a stale economy.

    On top of it... they tell you in a big msg that if you bring your loot to space, you just might get it looted.
     
  5. rick_janson

    rick_janson Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    I enjoy running around PVP4 on occasion, like I do Space. I don't take loot with me, though. The difference with PVP4 is that you don't have to go through it. You HAVE to go through Space. You don't have a choice. If you want/need to take stuff to another planet you have NO CHOICE but to pay the inflated costs of riding on a Mothership or risking it yourself. And yes, there are people who will say that.

    Yes, I've actually gotten quite good at avoiding the pirates. Mothership ticket costs are inflated, imo. Unless you're taking 3-400 PED (or more) of loot, it's not really worth the price. (In my opinion)

    I don't complain either. I just don't take loot with me. When a pirate is insistent on chasing me all the way to Arkadia from Calypso when I have no loot, I'll stop and let them shoot me down. I get spacecraft skill from their shots, repair skills from repairing the quad, minimal decay on the quad, and the knowledge that they wasted their ammo.

    Yes, they did. And it's been working. To begin with space actually killed Arkadia's economy. Arkadia Studios had to go back and spend like a month revamping their blueprints because of it. If not for that Arkadia's economy could well be ahead of where it is now. It's a good move, but it took planet partners by surprise and took a while to even out.

    Partially inaccurate... It's only shown to the pilot when you leave a planet. Everyone gets it when leaving a station, but by then it's too late.

    But most of your argument is beside the fact. It's real world money that is being stolen by pirates. You have no choice but to go through it. People who oppose lootable PVP altogether would say that PKers in PVP4 are theives, too. BUT those players who oppose lootable PVP have the OPTION of going AROUND PVP4. Moreover, you have to buy the 5.10 PED anti-toxic shot to even enter lootable PVP. Players who opt to NOT pay for that can't go through. So pirates are essentially exploiting the need that MindArk created to travel through Space to steal real world money from other players. Plain and simple.

    You may not understand it, and that's fine. You may not agree, and that's fine. But those are the facts. You asked why people hate pirates and that's the answer. You can agree or disagree, but that's the way it is.
     
  6. KMax

    KMax Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    I don't hate PVP4 space per say, I hate that I can't go from planet to planet unless I go through PVP4 space. Planet side I can fly/drive/boat/walk around it, I have a choice to enter it. Space to get to another planet I am force to go through it. I have never and will never take stackables in space without paying warp because of this fact. I played a long time to get that loot why should I risk it so someone else can take it from me because I never chose to spend months in space practicing space combat.

    I actually hate space in general, it is a big waste of time for me as I do not transport lootable materials. I wish they would put something up there to make it more fun to fly through not sure what but something, 40+ min just to get between planets and nothing to do is really boring, PVP or no PVP it is just boring. At the very least let you tp between planets if you carry no lootable items.

    It is fine that the PVP players found a fun part of the game but it is not fun for everyone and why are they forced to play that part of the game if they don't want to. I believe is the big question, if you intend to carry loot between planets, fine they are forced to play PVP4, if you don't carry loot there is no reason a person has to suffer through that medium for more then a min or two much less 40+ minutes. It doesn't benefit the PVP players in any way, it makes the non PVP players angry that they get shot down for no reason and have to start the fllight all over again, and some times multiple times, when all they want to do is play the game on another planet not try to carry any loot between the planets.

    Oh forgot to be on topic and explain why I hate pirates, it is because they shoot me down when I am not carrying anything, and sometime happens more then once in a row. I don't even try to run I just let them shoot me down so they can do a loot check. Then when they do it again I pretty much remember that name and just hate them for being the pirates they are.

    You asked so I told.
     
  7. lyosha

    lyosha Member

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    ^
    That does seem pretty frustrating, most respectable pirates only do a loot check once and let other pirates know your empty so they don't have to waste ammo on you...
    Only the newb pirates keep killing just for the hell of it because they suck to much to fight other pirates for fun, next time this happens do a shout-out at space station, tell them youve already been checked and this newb is harassing you, youll see that newb get shot down behind you by another pirate when he chases you =)


    By the way, you ever try shooting back instead of just letting them shoot you?
     
  8. Angel O2 Mercer

    Angel O2 Mercer Member

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    I love pvp. I love space.

    My main argument to hate the current layout and design of space pvp:

    It requires no investment on the pirates side to go pewpew&loot. It's literally the only profession where skills doesn't matter a piece of dung, and coming from one of the hardest skill-based games out there, yes I find that is a problem, a big problem actually. A guy who has depo'ed thousands of $$ and has worked his ass for years to reach certain level in order to hunt, mine or craft medium-high level stuff can be shot down and looted by a 5 minutes old avatar who just bought a quad, kismet and some ammo. The current space is the noobs-feel-uber paradise.

    And I see why it's like that, because MA treats us like cows. They don't give a damn what is better for us, or more fair, or what we like or not. This layout works better for them? then we have to swallow it.
     
  9. lyosha

    lyosha Member

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    ^
    Those right there are your choices, pay the inflated cost of MS(if you need a warp ASAP), or pay 5-20ped for a warp(Scheduled), we used to have to pay 20ped for teleporters to support the mother-ship owners that had their ships taken away... whats wrong with this current fee for transport, it actually makes more sense and adds to the role-play of the game.

    The mother-ship will not get looted, it will stop with its ass into the planet, as soon as you exit you have the choice to enter planet.

    This allows mother-ships to actually be used for what they were intended(safe interplanetary transport), while this does not justify the insane price tag attached to them... it at least validates the usefulness of them as being the ONLY means of safe transport for loot.
     
  10. KMax

    KMax Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    Nope if I am going to get shot in the back I will not beg to be left alone they can just shoot me. I will not give them the grand feeling of respect that they are trying to force me to give. If they want they either kill me or leave me the hell alone because I will never respect them.

    I respect someone overcharging for a ride more then a person that is holding a gun to my back. Should not be that hard to understand that.

    Edit: oops thought it said shouting back not shooting back. Still no I don't even own guns for my quad because I'd buy them to only shoot space mobs still would not engage in crappy pvp banter I don't want to do.
     
  11. KikkiJikki

    KikkiJikki Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    It's not that I hate pirates but that I think that what they do is unethical. My view is that you are trying to take peoples' property from them without their consent.

    I have read the arguement that one consents to this when you acknowledge the warning message but I don't agree that acknowledment you might be robbed = consent to being robbed.

    If you want to steal from others thats your decision but I don't want to do business with you. As far as the game mechanics allow I won't sell to you or buy from you if I have a reasonable alternative. If I could block specific avatars from my shop or auctions that's what I would do but the game doesn't allow for that. So I don't stress about things that I can't change. I just do what I can to play according to my own ethics.

    Other than that I don't really pay attention to pvp or pirates. If I need to travel through space I decide the best way to do that. If I need stuff from other planets I decide how to balance risk vs cost vs time.

    Regards,
    KikkiJikki
     
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  12. Spike Black

    Spike Black Active Member

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    PVP4 had an incentive to enter it with rare enmatters, ores and mobs. Space is just a way to limit people moving between planets.

    Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on your point of view, it also left MA in charge of the only way to move to between - Space.

    But you'll find the biggest reason why pirates are disliked in almost every other pvp game - camping. No different to players in Counter Strike or Unreal Tournament camping the spawn points or the final objectives, all campers are held in the same contempt.
     
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  13. rick_janson

    rick_janson Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    No you didn't. It was twice that. And it was to support owners of privateers, not Motherships. Yes, a mothership trip is less than 40 PED.. but still inflated. At the last markup I heard, a warp jump cost 50 PED -- split that between 20-30 people. Even 15. 5-10 I would agree to. 20? No. 15? No.

    But this thread is going off topic a bit. There's a risk no matter what you choose. You're given no choice but to go through Space (by one of two unfavorable options). That was the point I was making: That you have no choice but to go through Space. And you seemed to bypass that entirely. You asked why people hate pirates. You got answers. Ways to avoid them are irrelevant to this discussion.

    People hate pirates because they're out there to steal real world money. They harass you by shooting you down every time they see you. They're arrogant and think they're better than everyone else because they deserve your loot more than you do.

    There's the Why. Nothing else is really relevant.
     
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  14. Elford

    Elford Member

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    Yes. That's why I choose not to go to PVP4.

    Come play Eve sometime and find out about properly designed space combat and real Pirates, not this crappy implementation of MA's.
     
  15. Xandra

    Xandra Active Member Pro Users

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    Hi,

    Lulz, why should I? It would be a very stupid pirate to carry loot worth my ammo & decay, and than attacking me ... I'd just keep on the boring travel, doing a bit of dodging maybe, trying to make you waste more money. Before I'm shot down, and you find 1 piece of common dung in your loot window. And then I'd laugh my ass off :)

    Btw., I don't hate pirates. I hate the system making them possible, but not the pathetic result. Whoever thinks it would be a good idea to steal real money from newbies without taking the slightest of risk itself, well, every player has to decide itself what a reputation it desires.

    You want to be pirate? I'm fine with it. Do your business, I'll do mine. Just don't expect that I'd love you, admire or just accept. For me people that are happy to steal real money from other players, exploiting a dumb game mechanics are thieves, and I don't do business with such, nor do I recognize them as equal co-participants.

    I have my pride, and my honor. You might act in a way that earns you my respect, or you might choose not to do. Your choice.

    If I need to transport wares through space, I know how to do. And I have not been looted yet, not a single time. I still have this 1 piece of common dung sitting in my Quad's Inventory ;-)

    Have fun!

    PS: It's not that I'd be anti-PvP. I've spent years of my life PvP'ing happily, and I still do quite often. But not in such a pathetic implementation as we have in EU. On land it's easy, bigger purse wins. In space it's just boooring. Even silly black & white flight simulators in the early 90's ("Falcon" for instance) had ways better aerial combat then what MA is offering us today, in 2012, 22 years later ...
     
  16. RexDameon

    RexDameon Active Member Pro Users

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    I don't hate pirates and realistically every mother ship owner should love them also. Because if it wasn't for pirates then Motherships would not be worth using ever.

    SO no pirates means i would just buy a thruster for my sleip and fly myself. But instead i will ONLY travel by mothership specifically Normadie.
     
  17. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    I won't use the word "hate". But I disrespect pirates because they camp the revives and go primarily after noobs. Their goal is, apparently, to be annoying and hinder others' enjoyment of the game. It's lame, and shows lack of creativity and skills, not to mention anti-social behavior. And yes, I think those who do the same on planets are similarly pathetic.
     
  18. isclay

    isclay Active Member

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    This :hail:



     
  19. Cyborg Bill

    Cyborg Bill Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    I dont like pirates in EU because th simply are no better then the bully beating up the fat kid for his lunch money in school.

    If there was an option for non pvp space I would be up there cycling more ped then I do on planet side becasue I love flying, love space, love hunting (rl hunting not the EU craptastical press auto fire and come back in 5 minutes to loot the fag mints hunting) If this was just a video game Id probably be up there in the mix and fighting every day..but its hard earned money thats used and Im not willing to hand it over to some shitbird with morals issues and a god complex.
     
  20. AdeW

    AdeW Active Member

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    Funnily enough, the reason I left Eve is because I got pissed off wasting my time hunting down some cool gear across system after system only to lose it in a fight - yes, it was my 'fault' because I wasn't 'good enough', I accept that - but the sheer waste of time!!

    Same here in EU, I don't carry stackables when I fly, I'm not even armed - with galloping RSI and decrepit reflexes, there's no point really . I accept pirates are there and are out to get me. It's part of the game. When they do, I just get pissed off because more of my time is wasted.

    (starts Grumpy Old Man mode)

    Put it this way, I'm getting old and I have plenty of other things I could be doing, I only spend a couple of hours a week on EU anyway - just a pity I can't raise a 'f@ck off you little twats, leave me alone' flag.

    Still, I just look at pirates as being incompetent little losers irl whose only release is online-mugging - they really ought to get a life (mind you, maybe we all should?).

    (pauses Grumpy old man mode - exit switch no longer functions)

    But, I think the presence of an RCE could raise some interesting questions, warning or not...

    The fact is that behind every act of 'robbery' is a real person (hiding behind an avatar) 'stealing' real money (it's an RCE after all) from another real person (hiding behind an avatar) via some offensive (both meanings) action - I would have thought that as such, this is illegal irrespective of the scenario or location.

    Any way, I would like to see our lusty pirates try doing the same down their local mall or wherever and seeing what happens!

    Still, it would be interesting to run this past a lawyer to get their perspective - if they believed it not to be an issue, then we should all just shut up (because then it's part of the game - live with it) but if not, if it is a RL offence, then MA would have just got itself a whole load of heavy responsibilities! However, I would imagine they have already taken advisement, as they say, and that the 'you have been warned' is sufficient and that Caveat Emptor applies.

    Doesn't stop pirates being annoying little dicks though!
     
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