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What's the point of adding 3 new Athena amp?

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by cute781217, May 8, 2013.

  1. cute781217

    cute781217 Active Member Pro Users

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    So what's the point of adding 3 new Terra Athena amp if all it does is nothing but increasing the revenue of LA owner?

    I can't find the materials of (L) bp Terra 1 Athena so I use the UL prints here. The 3 new Amp bp only uses total 2 kinds of enmatter, 5 kinds of Ores, 3 Kinds of Treasure. But 5 of them can only be found in 8 Coins and Zulax, Balancing agent and Songkra is the only ARKADIAN MINERALS that used in ARKADIAN AMP while Wenrex, Hebredite, Star Dust, Vorn Plastic are heavily used in the 3 new bps.

    When I first saw (L) bp of Athena amps I thought ok maybe UL prints would be better, but after I saw the UL bp of Terra 1 Athena I know I was wrong.I know it's all about business, investors invest in Arkadia to profit but do it this way is just unacceptable for me, I mean there's tons of Arkadian minerals close to TT food but only 1 of them are used in this kinds of blueprint that would potentially increasing the demand of materials greatly. For me I would never use Terra Athena amp because it only does good for LA owner not Arkadia economy. I really Arkadia team can re-think the materials of blueprints, same types of item heavily used certain minerals would only make these minerals' markup skyrocketed however others remain as TT food.

    PS. This thread is nothing towards to LA owner, I'm just upsetting about how Arkadia team setting materials of blueprints.
     
  2. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    Really eight ingredients? (and residue makes nine).

    That is really annoying, as a crafter it is hard to get enough resources on arkadia, i often have troubles finding enough ingredients for a blueprint that only requires 3 ingredients. Blueprints like that will kill the economy. Take a look at the D-class mining amp from Rocktropia, that is how amps should be crafted. Just a few resources, so it's easy te craft, and the ingredients have a huge profit, making it possible for hunters and miners to make a profit, which will make sure there is enough resource supply for crafters.

    Sorry for the Off topic, I just saw something else stupid with the blueprint :)

    But a bit ontopic: yes it's insane to have those materials in the blueprints, there is already a very low supply from most of them, while there is plenty of tt food resources found daily. Bad for the economy of arkadia if you ask me.
     
  3. Fallen

    Fallen Member

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    when you look at any of the ingredients of any of the arkadian bp's you really wonder if the arkadian team has any idea what is in the ground or in their mobs, and i say this not as a crafter but as a miner/hunter, it is really hard to supply any of the ingredients, and this difficulty also makes them impossible to use from my POV.
    the "old" resource fields have been destroyed making it impossible to mine amped and supply large quantities of materials for a decent crafting run.
    armor BP's are another good example? crafted armor drops from mobs, and in one case is available in the broker too, yet the ingredients used make it very hard to compete against looted parts so it cant be crafted at a price that will sell?
    if i compare now with last year it seems a lot of the crafters gave up on arkadia, and when demand left, my reason for mining left, if there is nobody to supply mining is pretty pointless..
     
  4. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    I agree... wenrex, hebredite, star, vorn, those should not have been used in the new amps. We already struggled to get enough for the Terra Amp 1. It's not like before this year's ore reshuffling, when you could go mine a lot of wen and vorn from 8 coins. Now, they make up only a small fraction of what you're going to get out there, most of it is junk that MA put in there so we could have exports to caly (e.g. gazz, megan, angelic flakes). Junk with MU, but still, not what we need on ark... tho it helps that they can be sold rapidly on caly in large quantities.

    I am not liking the overabundance of universal ores when they're not used in Ark BPs, it makes the Ark minerals too rare. Of course, other Ark minerals are too common, zolphic oil, telfium, kaz. I'd like to see more variation between regions. 8 coins is not very big and much of the day it already suffers from reduced hitrates due to overmining. I don't want ores to be arranged like caly or RT, but I do want some variation between regions.

    Now IMO this is not necessarily the A-team's fault. I think MA stepped in and added the Caly junk across the entire planet. Could be wrong about that but as Fallen said, I don't think the A-team is really aware just how little some of these materials drop now since the migration of Caly ores to Ark earlier this year.
     
  5. Chris | Arkadia

    Chris | Arkadia Arkadia Tech PAF Administrator Planet Arkadia Official

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    There is actually quite a large amount of all these resources available in player inventories atm and a steady supply of all Arkadia resources is being mined each day.

    As for the 'Athena' Amps, these amps increase the amount of skill you gain each time you gain skills witch due to a display bug is not all that clear. Much like the Neurobiotic Boosters you will gain more skills and increase in your mining profession faster as a result.
     
  6. cute781217

    cute781217 Active Member Pro Users

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    I'm very disappointed at this answer... am I really look that stupid not knowing how it does to skill...?
     
  7. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    Yes there is a "steady" (but small) supply. And hoarding, I don't know what can be done about that. But look at the prices... 135%-140% for vorn and wenrex, even higher at times... it's not what you want to see in amp-making materials. The only thing that saves the terra amp 1 is that it uses animal oil residue (which is imported from Caly). IIRC the others don't use animal oil residue. Because of the price, it's not easy to sell large amounts of these materials, people don't grind these recipes, they only craft the items to sell, and that doesn't use much.

    As for the extra skill gains on the Athenas... the response I've had is that miners are underwhelmed by the idea if the amps cost more to buy. I used one when they first came out but won't use more till the prices come down to be in line with the Caly amps.

    Even Terra Amp 1 is pricy at 111% (and not profitable for me to craft them at that price btw). I craft and use them sometimes for myself just because it's a nice size amp and to "support the local economy". Compare it to the similar level 2 amp which can be bought for half the MU.

    The only important factor in the sales volume of an amp is its MU vs its efficiency. It has to be crafted and sold cheaply or it has no use.
     
  8. cute781217

    cute781217 Active Member Pro Users

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    I know my English is not perfect so I will try again. I know what the Athena amp does to my skill. My real question is why adding these 3 shit if it doesn't help the local economy at all? Why make it if all it does is subsidize LA owner? Why make the ingredients of bps heavily favor of LA owner? Are you guys honestly don't know there are tons of minerals that are still TT food after almost 2 years? Those minerals are the ones need some boost in demand instead of things like Wenrex, Vorn, Star dust etc...


    I have to say Arkadia team does tons of great job in last almost 2 years, I love Arkadia from the start and still do and will do in the future. It's sad but so true that there's alot less dedicated crafters than it was last year on Ark...
     
  9. Fallen

    Fallen Member

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    im really curious as to your market research, was there any indication that miners are interested in paying a premium markup for amps so that they could gain skills faster? my only concern when buying amps is price, every miner i know that is a heavy amp user bases their choice of amp on the markup they have to pay.
    now maybe i dont have as complete view of the inner workings of the arkadian economy as you, but the crafters i have talked to all agree that it is difficult to craft arkadian BP's in a economically sensible way, and impossible to do in quantity due to lack of consistant supplies.
     
  10. Spike Black

    Spike Black Active Member

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    Part of the problem regarding the hoarding is that it's still difficult to know what the markup items are on Ark. I've got lots of generic stackables but because the other planets are used in the calculations for MV they appear as tt fodder.

    For instance Neil has said the Animal Oil is used, well I've got about 60ped of that sitting in storage but I've been tempted to dump several times because the mv appears to be barely above tt.

    And when looking at the orders on the auction I've the feeling that many end up being filled by people bringing from Calypso rather than the locally supplied stuff.

    The other part is that, especially on mobs, there's way too many stackables on the low level ones. I worked out that just on low level Halix there's nearly 20 different types and I'm sure there's more than that. Yet some seem to be extremely rare but also used on Amps. You won't get crafters making stuff if they find it hard to get a decent size stack of resources if it takes so long to generate them which increases the MU.

    And if they're not crafting then we can't sell to them.
     
  11. Fallen

    Fallen Member

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    you are not the first to ask for planet specific auction data, and wont be the last ;)
    i think there is room for improvement from crafters too, if they really want a steady supply of a resource place auction orders at realistic/fair prices and make it worthwhile to actually fill the order.
    i wouldnt worry too much about people shipping from calypso to fill orders on arkadia, i found it much easier to take all my hunting loot back to calypso due to the quantities involved, at least there i was assured of a fast sale. i think that in most cases it just isnt worth the effort for a trader to bring resources to arkadia to profit on the minor differences in prices considering there is already a oversupply of common hunting loot.
     
  12. KikkiJikki

    KikkiJikki Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    While there is TT fodder in loot (woods and non-native hides if u arent crafting them), oils are sellable in auction. Right now prices are a little depressed but I am still able to sell at 102 - 104%, which is better than TT. I generally sell in 100 ped TT lots, SB at 101, BO at where ever I think the local market is at.

    I don't make mining amps but there are a few bps I have put away for now while I wait for prices on rare ingredients to come down. The new animal parts and treasures are causing me much angst.
     
  13. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    I'm really disappointed with this Chris, do you have any idea how many resources i need to do a proper crafting run on ark?
    If i want to craft some guns i can easily use 50% of the weekly supply of hebredite for example. Just because there are some people that have ores in storage that doesn't mean there is enough supply.
     
  14. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    Hebredite is another one of those 8Coins-only ores that is hard to get enough of since the ore shuffle.

    If I could, I'd send all my miners out to 8 Coins, but I can't because the hit rate suffers and we lose too much ped. It's already lower than other places on the planet because of all the mining that goes on there. I hope the A-team has not backed themselves into an economic hole... as the population on ark increases, the demand for vorn, hebredite, wenrex, and star will only increase... yet the land area in 8 Coins will not increase, and I fear that keeping these minerals unique to 8 Coins were part of the initial land area agreement with Deathifier, which means we won't have addiitonal places to mine for them. This is bad news for the BPs (many!) that use these four resources.... they will only become harder and less economical to click as the population increases. Hopefully MA balancing manager will wake up and change these resources to "common".

    I don't include Aakas in the list of "endangered" resources because it currently makes up a good 50% or more of what you find treasure hunting in certain regions of 8C.
     
  15. Fallen

    Fallen Member

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    its a shame really when the way to make players happy is so simple, MA and all the PP's seem to think that making more and more new resources is "exciting" when all it does is create more small stacks of stuff that is hard to sell on auction, or harder to save up if your budget is small, this leads to lots of TT-ing and low MU, or high MU and low demand, when there are so many resources that already exist that have low demand, the focus should be on giving all these resources a use and making them viable, before adding new "junk" to the system.for example the new BP's that dropped recently were a HUGE oppertunity to give treasure mining a much needed boost.
     
  16. Cyborg Bill

    Cyborg Bill Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    There should be a system wide moratorium on adding new resources into the game. For each new one put in 2 under performing not used ones must come out. This will help EVERYONE including the knuckleheads at MA who don't care about the population at all only the funds it provides.
     
  17. KMax

    KMax Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    I agree STOP adding new mats MA and PP's.... There are already so many mats to loot there is no need to keep adding more...... Every event or addition seems to add more bp's in and they never use already existing mats or if they do barely any at all and they just keep adding more mats to loot and new bp's. Gathering loot for crafting is almost a failed system as you go hunting mining for some particular mats you get 80% back of crap you don't want and most is hard to sell because stacks to small for AH or no-one wants it either.

    Seriously we have how many ores/enmatter to make weapons is there really a need to add a new ore/enmatter to make a new weapon? New mats that make sense is for a complete new system like treasure hunting, fishing etc, but no reason to go overboard, but really if system exists there already is an over abundance of mats. Addition of mats that make sense is if new mob they have new animal parts to make dna, textures etc, we really don't need a new type of component added to be used to make a new gun. There are already about 50 types of components already out there that can be used.
     
  18. Pretender

    Pretender Member

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    Agreed. Years ago it used to be animal hides, soft hide, fine hide, thin+fine+normal wool, maybe some paint, and that was it. In mining, Ore was about 25 resources and enmatter about half of that. Now that may have been a bit on the thin side, but how many are we at now? It's near impossible to remember, and even more impossible (most of the time) to sell any of it. Other then the rare few resources that are actually being used, most either does not sell at the MU%'s given on the auction tab, or to traders. Which means having to TT alot of resources. I would suggest to stop adding new mined resources and expand the current system to use ALL resources to the point that all resources are being USED. Sure there are Bp's which use just about any material, however if that BP uses some parts that are extremely rare, both the resources will not be bought.

    With hunting this is even more so. So my suggestion would be to add more BP's, especially lower level BP's, that use alot of CURRENT, and GENERIC resources. So no platinum or ruga, but lyst, oil, pellets, melchi, etc. And lower level BP's would be BP's in the range of lvl 1-4, maybe lvl 5. Alot of people can use those, and if the BP's for low MU resources are easely accessible you get 1 of 2 results: Either the hunter/miner will craft the BP themselves, or they will be able to sell it on the market (auction, trader or even shop). Rather then the current situation where items go up on auction and dont recieve any bids, even with opening%'s far below daily/weekly MU.
     
  19. Spike Black

    Spike Black Active Member

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    I know one who stopped entirely because the return was less the CLD's he owns, the market for muscle oil just vanished possibly due to it's ever increasing drop rate here on Ark. At the start muscle oil was extremely hard to build stacks so there was good money in it but not now as almost everything drops it. On Halix I get more muscle oil than animal oil residue. At one point I sold my stack and it got transported back to Caly.

    I've made this comment in the past but they've always added new resources and reduced certain ones to prevent the crafting of older blueprints in favour of the newer ones. A new round of blueprints heralds a new round of stackables to go with them.
     
  20. cute781217

    cute781217 Active Member Pro Users

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    Good to see many people share their own thoughts, but this thread is not really about adding too much new stackables, though I think it deserve a new thread to discuss it to let A team know hat we are tkinking and what we really want and need.



    The main purpose of this thread is to ask why adding 3 new amp only to generate more revenue for LA owner instead of make use of a some TT food minerals to boost its demand. And what make it even worse is Chris skip this main question only to answer something that already wrote in descrption of some Athena amps. I know it is not good to ask them to change the require incrdients of existing blueprints, but I really hope we wont see any series of bps incresients being set like athena terra amps.

    Best Regards
     

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