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What is the TT return of an instance? - Harmonys post interview experiment

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by harmony, Feb 24, 2013.

  1. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    The problem with the lowest levels is that you rarely loot items with good MU (swords, golden key parts), so you're relying on arkoins to bring up the MU.
     
  2. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    Markup is irrelevant in the discussion of tt returns. I'm stating that an instance should give back at least 90% of ammo&gun decay in loot. That the markup of some of the loot is high at the moment is nice for the people doing it, but markups never last.

    In a game where people complain about 90% tt returns, calling it things i won't repeat here, imagine if you are a new player deposit 10 bucks and do two key 1 instances. I doubt anyone would stay after that.
     
  3. Snape

    Snape Master of the BanHammer Staff Member PAF Administrator

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    Guys, I'd just like to stick my head in and tell you I think you are doing an excellent job of researching this. I might even drop some stats in myself if I can get in and do some instances when I get home to Perth.
     
  4. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    I thought i'd try to avoid shooting as much mobs as possible hoping loot would still be around 30 peds on key 1...

    total costs: 8.77 ped (+20 for key)
    total return: 20.64 peds

    72% tt return

    Will continue this thread in a week or so, heading of to calypso tonight since these instances get me depressed.
    Shop is fully stocked again btw :)
     
  5. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    Seems to me that at the end of the day, MU is what matters. It's pretty clear to me by now that instance returns are not 90% TT, I think you'd agree. Now me, I don't really care at all what the TT returns are as long as MU makes up for the difference. We fixate on TT returns on the forums for the sole reason that it's a lot easier to calculate TT returns than Real returns. If I'm hunting planetside and get 90% TT return with 102% average markup, it is exactly the same as running an instance and getting 80% return with 114.75% average markup.

    MUs never last... well... that depends on the way the system is designed. With land deeds being sold via arkoin brokers, it should keep people running instances and buying arkoins for a long time... and don't forget the other Broker items that will be added as well.

    A newbie running instance 1 would get significantly less returns than you or me, since he wastes so much ammo per shot. I would not recommend to a newbie that he focus on instances while skilling his first weapon, unless he just loves doing them. Again, I don't think the level 1 instance is going to bring you the best MU return, since you miss out on some of the bigger MU items.
     
  6. Fallen

    Fallen Member

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    to me the 90-95% TT return is the "promise MA makes", the line in the sand, the holy bond, and markup is between players only, once MA or any other in game entity starts taking MU into account beforehand they are breaking that most sacred thing there is :)

    and harmony is right to say markup never lasts, because MU is self correcting, it needs no help form others to reach a balance between supply and demand, thats what players do.
     
  7. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    The problem is it's not a promise, just something you've gotten used to expecting.
     
  8. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    So, are you saying it is ok that tt returns are 75% in instances?

    Off course it's no promise, but in over 7 years of tracking I would say it is pretty common (ofc my tracking show higher returns, but i mention 90% since it's the socially accepted return atm).
     
  9. BB Global

    BB Global Member

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    If each of the 6 land deeds will be sold for Arkoins, and Arkadia Studios have the capacity to introduce land areas for Arkadia Storyline purposes (Oratan Caves for sale - LA 5 for example), the minimum proposed threshold for Arkoins losing their markup is way off in the distance (we know they'll be used for a purchase on a revenue stream in this case) then please also consider that the Ark Urban Jackets will definitely attract some of those, as will the insane eco taggers.

    The Ark Urban Jacket for example costs 3000 Arkoins, at 30ped tt, the jacket is worth 10ped, people paid 500% for that jacket, I still have no buyers remorse as it's a quality product born from the community, provided by the hosts.


    The potential for Arkadia Studios to introduce more glitz/glam items or insane weapons (Plasma AoE for the future!) it's a viable ingame commodity a lot longer than the 90mil Arkoins proposed for the 6 land areas (at their minimum price) more likely 90mil Arkoins will be absorbed by the brokers for the 6 land areas and 10mil (3000 broker clothing items / x number of weapons) for clothes etc.... thats 100mil arkoins - base
     
  10. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying, as long as MU covers the extra TT loss (except it looks more like 80% is the average eco TT return). For me personally, running instances have been a profit. Would I prefer if it was higher? Of course!

    I realize that not everyone will profit from instances, but then how many profit from regular hunting? My hunting runs are usually ~ 10% loss after MU. I'd like to see what the average instance return with MU is, how it compares to regular hunting. My guess is it's not much different.
     
  11. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    Ok in that case i never ever want to see a complaining post from you about loot in this forum EVER Neil :)

    I'm not claiming instances can't be profitable, I'm claiming that tt returns are way too low, and players are getting ripped because of it.

    What if tt returns were 10% and there is a chance of a 2k% item, still think it's good business ethics from MA/Arkadia?
     
  12. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    It would depend on how often the item drops; how much you lose or gain after markups are considered. If the 2k% MU item makes up 60% of your loot TT value, then it's a good deal. This wouldn't work if every activity were like this as it would quickly drain the universe of TT value and would be like a massive pyramid scheme... needing to recruit exponentially more and more new players just to preserve the MU on the items you loot.

    Anyways...... the only point I'm making is that TT returns give a false picture of whether hunting or instances are economical. We need to consider average MU as well. I do agree with you that level 1 and 2 instances need some more exciting loot, or the TT return should be raised.
     

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