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What is the TT return of an instance? - Harmonys post interview experiment

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by harmony, Feb 24, 2013.

  1. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    I listened to yesterday's interview and heard the comments on tt returns in instances and that they aren't different then on normal mobs. While i agree with the general observations that you need a bigger sample size to be certain of something, i am 100% convinced that tt returns in instances are substantially lower then on normal hunting.

    So i decided to start a log, i will keep going with this log until Dave has to agree that i am right, or till i discover that i am wrong and will apoligize and never question Dave again (in the coming weeks anyway :))

    Since i am sure i will loose on every instance i will only do key 1 instances.

    For those that think eco matters (i do btw), i will use the following gear:

    armor: none
    FAP: none
    gun: M-ray 1000 laser pistol + Omegaton a101 (2.955 damage per pec)

    The above set-up should prevent anyone from saying i should play more eco.

    Will start tonight after some last minute crafting on calypso.
     
  2. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    reserved for results
     
  3. Mordrell

    Mordrell Active Member Pro Users

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  4. RAZER

    RAZER Active Member Pro Users

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    Would be interesting to see this. Could you keep track on the number mobs you kill as well please?
     
  5. Snape

    Snape Master of the BanHammer Staff Member PAF Administrator

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    Will be interesting to see the results Harmony. I'd assume you are going to track everything you can from mobs killed to ammo burned etc?

    BTW, whilst I saw the :) at the end of your thread title, I still saw it as a bit much in the way of directly insulting David; so I changed it to reflect the content of the thread more accurately.
     
  6. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    Lol, just repeating his own words :)

    Will do a very detailed report per run, let's see after the first run if it is enough. In the second post i'll only keep track of tt used vs tt loot and the percentages though.
     
  7. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    Sure, total mobs or per specific mob?
     
  8. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    Just did first run, i had to cheat a bit on the two bosses though, used adjusted hero +a105 which is uneco at my level.

    6361 damage inflicted
    174 creatures killed (1x denera sentinel, 1x magurg female, 88* rakta, 28* ubo, 56* Yarrijak)

    key tt: 20 peds
    total ammo used: 19.2 peds
    total gun&amp decay: 5.51 peds

    total tt lost: 44.71

    total loot:
    ammo: 6.27 peds
    wool: 18.8 peds
    muscle oil: .15 peds
    oil residue: .02 peds
    arkoin: 13.03 peds
    nanochip: 4.39

    total loot: 42.66 peds

    %tt return: 95.41%

    Ohh crap.

    Doing another run just to be safe, but never had a return like that before they introduced the missions.
    (must say i like the improvements made to the instances since then (terminals and less agressive snakes)
     
  9. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    ok second run done:

    6419 damage inflicted
    174 creatures killed (1x denera sentinel, 1x magurg female, 88* rakta, 28* ubo, 56* Yarrijak)

    key tt: 20 peds
    total ammo used: 18.7 peds
    total gun&amp decay: 5.6 peds

    total tt lost: 44.3

    total loot:
    ammo: 13.86 peds
    wool: 8.8 peds
    muscle oil: 3.42 peds
    oil residue: .01 peds
    arkoin: 6.1 peds
    eye oil: .1 peds
    animal hide: .28 peds
    socket ii components: 1.4 peds
    tier ii components: 1.54 peds

    total loot: 35.53 peds

    %tt return: 80.20%

    While 2 runs are way to little to actually say something about returns, i notice a huge difference with several months ago. Bot runs have a way higher tt return then the 30+ runs i did back then (where i killed all the mobs).

    So I have to admit that I was wrong, and tt returns don't differ greatly from normal hunting.

    Will do several more runs though, to prove to myself that i wasn't just extremely lucky today.

    As a bonus I completed two missions :)

    One thing i noticed is that the final mob will just stand still and not run towards me (not that i mind though)

     
  10. KikkiJikki

    KikkiJikki Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    Harmony,

    I was going to say, if you keep your distance from the two bosses you can go low dps, high dpp. For now, the bug doesn't leave the room it starts in and as you have noticed, the sentinel doesnt actually leave its starting spot. Not sure if that will continue with the next release though.

    KikkiJikki
     
  11. T79x

    T79x Adviser Arkadia Adviser

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    174 mobs ... hope problematic spawning point will be repared too in next VU
    4 yarriaks less ... 40 hp difference
     
  12. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    third run:

    6265 damage inflicted
    174 creatures killed (1x denera sentinel, 1x magurg female, 88* rakta, 28* ubo, 56* Yarrijak)

    key tt: 20 peds
    total ammo used: 18.3 peds
    total gun&amp decay: 5.56 peds

    total tt lost: 43.86

    total loot:
    arkoin: 10.42 peds
    tt stuff: 20.33 peds

    total loot: 30.75 peds

    %tt return: 70.10%

    managed to shoot the first boss with the M-ray 1000, but the second one regenerated too much to my liking.
     
  13. RAZER

    RAZER Active Member Pro Users

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    lol
     
  14. ForrestPark

    ForrestPark New Member

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    Overkill and key value

    Let's think about this in a logical way.

    The easiest and most obvious way for MA to program the total loot after an instance is to generate a PED value of loot on every kill you do during the instance. Then at the end of the instance you receive looted items with that total TT value.

    The problem with the Level 1 instance on Arkadia is that 144 (?) of the 174 (?) mobs have 10HP and therefore even if you take a very small weapon that does 2-4 damage (e.g. SI Scorpion) the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM overkill you'll do on all those nooby mobs will be 14.5%. If you use a weapon that does, for example 5-10 damage, your average overkill on the 10HP mobs in the Level 1 instance will be 48.6%.

    So I think the inherent overkill is the problem - a by-product of the way instances have been programmed, and the Level 1 instance in particular.

    Also, is the value of the key added to the total loot? If so, I presume this is only the TT value.

    Have fun.

    Forrest :)
     
  15. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    It's not that simple, due to mob regeneration. In the non-instance part of the game, loot is awarded according to damage done (minus overkill), not "mob hp". Additionally, the damage counter in the instance counts overkill, and this gives a false understanding of the damage you have done, since the system does not award more loot for overkill (several players have tested this). I assume it does reward more loot for regeneration, similar to other mobs, but haven't tested this (it would be a lot harder to test definitively than with regular mobs).
     
  16. sostoned

    sostoned Member

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    In my interpretation of the damage counter its not overkill, but regeneration that is adding up damage done. So imo it gives a very realistic figure of the damage done(whereby overkill is lost)
     
  17. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    It's both regeneration and overkill. Try it out. Take a really big gun and shoot a ratka. You'll get a big amount of damage added to your score. Now take that same gun and kill all the mobs in a level 1 instance. You'll get a large amount of damage but only the normal amount of loot. I've done the test, many others have done it as well.

    There are two counters... the correct, internal one that determines loot (counts regen but not overkill) and the displayed one (counts regen and overkill).
     
  18. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    Small update on this thread, since i did a few more runs, i'm back to thinking we get screwed with tt returns. :(

    tt returns so far (only counting direct costs):

    95%
    80%
    70%
    80%
    77%
    82%
    70%
    75%
    77%
    75%

    with an average of: 78%

    I am wondering is there anyone out there with a 120%+ tt return run on any instance? Please tell me this is possible.
     
  19. Cyborg Bill

    Cyborg Bill Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    I have run mainly the level 1 instances since start. I have found that it didnt matter if I ran it with opalo or with the glacier sword and asi 37 for the boss mobs tt has always been right around 30 ped + or - a ped 2 at best / worst. no fap no armor and with the opalo it was taking about 9 ped ammo + key cost and with the sword its about 11 ped decay with 2 ped ammo for the asi dont bother checking gun decays as the payment in the level 1 seems locked at the 30 ped return no matter what I do.
     
  20. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    thanks for the reply, i never have been able to complete a key 1 instance for less then 42 peds (which includes the 20 ped for the key), so that means a 70-75% tt return at it's best. If we rule out bad luck (sample size probably still too small for that), it would mean that either tt returns or too low, or that you have to ignore most mobs to get a decent return.

    Anyone out here have better results with the instances?