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Warning about Space Travel

Discussion in 'Space' started by Neil, Apr 12, 2013.

  1. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    As per the necro bumping rules, I'm making my own thread, but it's the same issue as originally mentioned here in Strash's thread from 2011:


    http://arkadiaforum.com/showthread.php?2236-Warning-about-space-travel


    There was a little bit of controversy in that thread about whether "it really happened" but suffice it to say that since that time I've seen it happen multiple times, to me and others. Yes, it really happened.

    It happened to one of my disciples last night. He landed on Ark ~ 03:00 MA time and ran around on ark for an hour, hunting and whatever, then logged out. Next time he logs in he finds himself dead in space (now with loot, ofc). Quad has been emptied of fuel. This time when he heads toward the planet it throws a "could not execute" error and won't let him land. He's able to use the TP to get down to planet. Thruster did decay for the landing and probably the 2 ped was removed from card as well. It's a good bet that he was in a lootable state while his double was sitting in the quad at the edge of the atmosphere.

    His chat log does not show doubled hof messages (for those not following this issue, doubled hof messages have been known to indicate that your avatar is registered as active on 2 different servers at once).

    So.... to sum up... space has been pretty tame lately but now (again) I recommend relogging after entering a planet (keep quad in inventory in case you get booted back to space). It's a rare thing but has the potential to lose you many peds of loot in the worst case scenario.
     
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  2. Jenny ferr

    Jenny ferr Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    thanks for the warning Neil, I always relog (when I remember) after that first thread probably wont ever stop doing that just for safety
     
  3. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    The thing about space glitches... they hit you when you're not expecting them :)
     
  4. mjrekich

    mjrekich New User

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    Thanks for the heads up. This will definitely help me keep some of my hard earned PED :)

    Do you think that MA knows about this glitch?
     
  5. Snape

    Snape Master of the BanHammer Staff Member PAF Administrator

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    They should by now, but I hope that people are sending them Support Cases about it still
     
  6. Cyborg Bill

    Cyborg Bill Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    7 or so rotations (Vu's patches etc) of MA's working code and the bugs come back around.. They failed 5th grade computer class when they had the part about NOT working with bad copies and making the back ups from a known good state. Stupid is as stupid does.
     
  7. Nikto

    Nikto Active Member

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    Looks like last VU broke something... again.
    Never had that issue before, but got it several minutes ago on Calypso (on planet side) got error message after trying to use TP, teleported just 1-2 minutes later and got double Globals/HOF/Login/Logout messages.
     
  8. jaywalker

    jaywalker Member

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    I don't think re-logging fixes this issue.

    A few weeks back I was glitched whilst attempting to land on Arkadia, and my quad, my passenger and i were left hanging in a weird no-man's land, with no planet, only stars, and a red PvP light showing. I re-logged and was returned to ToS Normandie.

    My passenger, however, remained on-board for another 30 minutes, and later reported that he could see my double in the quad with him, for that full 30 minutes.

    It gets worse.

    over the next 2-3 days I had reports from friends that they could see the quad in question hanging near ark atmosphere, even though that was sitting in my inventory on-planet. On the 3rd day, or therabouts, i logged in to find that this quad (still in my inventory) had been destroyed. Yep, so had the other one, and I now had a ghost wreck, sitting up there.

    MA gave an otherwise very helpful answer to my Support Case and removed the ghost. However, they totally ignored my question as to whether my ava had been/could have been looted of stuff I was holding on-planet at the time. Just ignored it.

    Obviously i don't keep track of what I'm holding on planet, since I don't do PvP. Due to my trade, i'm very often holding large amounts of expensive, lootable paints and texture, so if i couldbelooted, I very likely wasand the looter was likely very happy indeed.

    I've no way to tell, as you can't count things that have gone.

    This brings me to the point that we BADLY NEED A MESSAGE TO TELL WHAT WE'VE BEEN LOOTED OF. The looter gets a message, even though he's able to look in his inventory and count it. The loser gets no message at all and can only tell that he's lost something that he didn't intend to carry if the pirate takes the trouble to gloat. This is not acceptable, and even less so in the face of these bugs

    jay :)
     
  9. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    Very strange and scary situation... but I completely agree with you, we need not only this loot message, but some kind of info page whenever we're in lootable PVP showing how much lootables we have on us. It's not obvious when you carry materials in containers and vehicle inventories; it's a lot of clicking to check them all.

    I realize this kind of situation is very rare, but when it happens I think it's one of the most serious bugs in the game, MA needs to fix it.
     
  10. jaywalker

    jaywalker Member

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    Daaaaaamn

    I just checked out that old thread that Strash made (missed it at the time)

    As you say, Neil, we're all very familiar with duplicate avas by now. No doubting the story.

    Putting all the info together:

    1)You can get your ava duplicated when crossing server boundaries, e.g. landing on-planet
    2) the duplicate can remain in-game despite re-logs
    3) you can get looted of items currently held in your inventory, wherever you are, when your ghost ava gets killed.
    4) You can never prove this actually happened, unless the looter confirms, because you don't get a message. You might never even know where the hell your stuff went to, or how much stuff you lost.

    The only question remaining is whether you can be looted, in this fashion, whilst actually logged out(or immediately on rejoining game, which amounts to the same) Can't be sure (wasn't watching inventory constantly) but I think I was logged out when my ghost quad was destroyed. And i vaguely recall being somewhat surprised to have zero heath when logging backin (couldn't recall being killed)

    Be afraid. Be very afraid.

    jay

    EDIT: PS decided to give Strash a belated +rep. System glitch: gave it to Stagger instead. GAH!
     
  11. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    Now that's disturbing... being looted while logged off. It would be nice if the person who killed you in space would reply and let us know if they got any loot. (They can PM me and they will remain anonymous.)
     
  12. jaywalker

    jaywalker Member

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    Yep, would be interesting.

    However, on reflection, I think the answer as to whether you're lootable, even if logged out, would have to be yes

    They're not gonna have a line in the code that says IF (player logged in) THEN (loot) are they? The assumption would be that if the ava is there, then the player is logged in...or else very recently logged out in a frantic attempt to avoid getting looted. We all know that to avoid that terrible scenario that an ava unfairly escapes being looted, your ava remains in-game - and lootable- for a short period after you log.

    So there's absolutely no reason -that i can see- why an ava should not be lootable whilst player logged out, if you happen to have one of these ineradicable duplicates.

    jay
     
  13. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    I think the conflict is resolved during login, not during logout. So it could be that a simple logout won't fix the duplicate ava issue (i think that's what you did, right? just logged out and then came back the next day or whenever you next logged in?). So if you're carrying loot and land on a planet, best to relog, not just log out and go to sleep.
     
  14. jaywalker

    jaywalker Member

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    nope, i logged back in immediately, died, revived, then landed in my spare quad. i usually log in several times per day and that day was no exception. anyways if my duplicate quad hung around for 3 days, why not the duplicate ava? quad wouldn't normally just hang there in space whilst ava logged out.
     
  15. Xandra

    Xandra Active Member Pro Users

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    Hi,

    this sounds rather disturbing. Thx for the info!

    So we now can be looted not only when in space (provided we have some stackables with us), but additionally after the safe return, just in case a ghostly duplicate of ourselves and our ship would remain in space?
    So, I come back from a space trip, land in Celeste, put my quad into storage, grab some 5k PED stackable stuff from storage to sell it, walk over to auction, check prices and whooosh - my 5K PEDs worth of stackables are gone? Because some pirate shot down my ghostly duplicate, and looted my on-planet stuff this way?

    You bet, I'd only make a single support case, and if this wouldn't be resolved after at least 24h, I'd fire up my lawyer.

    Meanwhile, I'd use Fraps or similar to document any planet landing, or, even better, would avoid space at all. Good job, MA.

    What a madness! Have fun!
     
  16. jaywalker

    jaywalker Member

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    The worst of it is that you wouldn't even know know you'd been looted, Xandra, nor how much you'd lost, unless you download your item list repeatedly whilst keeping a log of all in-game actions.

    Its happened to me a good few times that I've logged in to find myself heading for nearest revive, and I've thought "Fancy that! some animal must have got in here (auction house) and killed me before i logged out. I never thought to check for burned-out quad in my inventory. And if i thought to check if I'd lost the stuff I was holding...well my memory isn't that good. I could seldom say for certain that I was holding anything, or that I didn't use up that 2k of Tiarak texture that i thought i had.

    Also, you wouldn't even know you're even vulnerable, unless your friends happen to see your ghost, and tell you so.

    Looks like the only way to keep your planetside stuff safe is to NEVER cross space server boundaries by quad. That is, don't use a quad in space at all (since its useless if not crossing boundaries) whether carying stackables or not. Until MA find a solution for this, they should reduce the cost of TP down to planet to 2PED (or rather 1 PED, since people do reduce landing costs by sharing a quad) I dunno how they can make it possible for everybody to get a summon into space, though. They should also implement a "looted of " message ASAP, and be prepared to return a load of things that are looted by bug exploiters.

    You can bet your life that the ratz know about this bug, and are patrolling the server borders, looking for ghosts.

    jay
     
  17. Colbey Kal

    Colbey Kal Member

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    The one time I've left calypso and went to Arkadia since the space flight was introduced this happened to me.

    I think I stayed logged in the whole time and, luckily, only did the newbie missions, with a little of the carabok grinder. I somehow died in the middle of killing a carabok and revived on the space station with no loot or mined resources in my inventory.

    I sent a support case detailing what happened and that I was irritated about the lost loot / reentry fee, presuming I was out the PED since I had no record of what I had on me. I received a fairly prompt reply that I had been cerdited with 25 PED.(What I would guess was the value of my stackable. . . newbie missions. . . lucky)

    I would have to say that this is a horrible bug that should be displayed Very clearly when attempting to enter space. I would not have went if I had known I was living in lootable PvP while on plant. But I'll also say that I was also very happy that support refunded my lost PED which I had thought was gone. I don't know if it's because I went through the Arkadia department instead of the normal MA / Calypos route, but a prompt reply with action taken actually surprised me greatly
     
  18. jaywalker

    jaywalker Member

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    Still thinking about this issue.
    You don't say how your quad/ava got duped, colby. Neil, neither does your story relate this part. That might be crucial.

    In my case , i was clearly bugged and had to re-log in space to be able to proceed. I'm pretty sure it was a space re-log (following crash) led to my ava being duped on another previous occasion (duped ava, in this other case, remained on board Normandie, according to crew, when i went down to Ark) . You guys?

    i'm thinking, now, how your ava remains in-game and lootable for a limited time (is it 30 seconds) after you crash or log-off in PvP. This is to stop people from escaping pirates in this fashion. Now , what if something occurs to stop the system recognising that your 30 seconds are now up? Then that state could be protracted indefinitely, and this could be what leads to the duping.

    Am i onto something?

    jay

    EDIT: PS i did actually choke to death in space then revive at nearest terminal, after re-log, exactly as expected. And my quad returned to inventory as expected. Yet accprding to witnesses, I still had an ava and quad out there, which remained through many log-ins and eventually had to be removed by Support.

    Well, if when I logged back in, my ava was still sitting in the quad, waiting for a time-out which never occured, then it all makes sense. System resolves the unexpected contradiction by creating 2nd ava. But you still have only one inventory, one item list, one vehicle; they just appear in two places at once. So, anything that affects the duped ava's vehicle, inventory or item list is bound to affect your "carried" stuff, wherever you happen to be. Pirate burns the ghost vehicle -your one unique vehicle which MA have listed is burned, and thus the one in your inventory turns into a wreck. Pirate kills ghost ava and loots it- system will remove stuff from your single, unique item list, without asking where exactly you are (That item list is not literally in-game after all; it's stored seperately on a server somewhere, and available to your ava in-game. The difference is crucial)
     
  19. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    This has actually happened to me twice this week.

    The first, I made a trip from courageous firebase to port atlantis... I took off and had trouble entering space. It gave me an area unavailable message but after a while of going up and down around 1000m I was able to get to space. While flying in space i saw doubled messages but hoped it'll go away when i land. After relog, I'm back at courageous. Funnily enough a ghost of my quad is sitting there, and it had used up the trip's oil. So I make the trip again, this time in my spare quad (didn't want to mess with the 1st quad in case it did something bad). Made the trip like normal, and everything else went fine.

    The other time a couple days later I was teleporting from one area to another on ark. I saw an area unavailable message and on arrival in the new place, I see doubled messages. I relog and the message goes away.

    Is it happening more or is it just "dynamic"? Don't know. But be wary of area unavailable messages....
     
  20. svena

    svena Active Member Pro Users

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    This just happened to me. Totally fucking unacceptable. Now I'm not sure what state my avatar is in. I've sent a support case about it demanding an answer and fee refunds.

    I flew to caly, it took about 30 seconds to suck me down to planet surface after hitting the land button. Did some p2p trades, auctioned some stuff then re-logged. Surprise surprise I'm back in space. Die and re-spawn on cp, and then tp down to the planet.
     

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