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Universal Ammo & Shrapnel

Discussion in 'Loot Theories' started by SallyBridges, Oct 16, 2014.

What Will You Do With Your Shrapnel

  1. I Will convert My Shrapnel to Universal Ammo

    77.6%
  2. I Wiill TT My Shrapnel to the TT & Purchase my Preffured Ammo

    11.8%
  3. I Am Melee All The Way

    10.5%
  1. SallyBridges

    SallyBridges Adviser Arkadia Adviser

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    I have been pondering and thinking should I convert my shrapnel loot's from shrapnel to universal ammo for the extra ammo but then this got me thinking. and i have come up with some discussion points

    I am well aware that using different weapons on the same mob ( Kadra Young ) can produce different loot sizes and different hunting results. I am wondering if this now get even more different results by playing with universal ammo on top.


    Piron PBr-22 / 27 Anything From nova 0 to max 4 ped average
    Maddox IV Anything From nova 0 to max 4.8 ped average
    Herman Ark-28 Anything From Nova 0 to max 4.5 ped Average

    This is excluding mini's and globals out of the results but the normal loot sizes per kill to MAX value.

    Converting Universal Ammo From Shrapnel

    As we know universal ammo unless it has changed is avatar bound now i dont have a problem with this but this got me thinking if i was a new player and I came in to the planet and purchased any of the new starter packs I would get Universal Ammo in my starter pack.

    So the Thinking is by converting the shrapnel to ammo are you disadvantaging yourself in terms of the ammo that you use to shoot. by using universal ammo as this is used in all the new start packs and web shop items if you used this ammo could it theoretically be worse of than tt'ing the shrapnel and buying your preferred laser or blp .

    The differences are already there for the weapon you use and so would there be differences in the ammo and with so much universal potentially been used on smaller mobs is this reflective on using the same ammo on larger mobs.


    Not Converting

    If you don't convert your shrapnel you still have the TT value of the item this then allows you to TT and then purchase your preferred Ammo for the weapon that is preferable to you and is in stacks of ammo again potentially more suited to what other hunters are using on the mobs your hunting with the weapons your using ( non new starter gear ) .

    Or have I finally gone Crazy & thinking about loot too much ! ! !

    So Question Poll Time - What will you do with your Shrapnel
     
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  2. Snape

    Snape Master of the BanHammer Staff Member PAF Administrator

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    Voted to convert

    EDIT: Hmmm, just noticed how dark the poll text is....will have to do something about that....might have to wait till teh weekend though :rolleyes:
     
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  3. KikkiJikki

    KikkiJikki Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    I don't subscribe to your loot theory.

    I'll probably convert the shrapnel to ammo because it's better MU than TT
     
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  4. Jod

    Jod Well-Known Member

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    I think what your seeing is the loot return per cost to kill.

    The MadIV is probably the highest cost to kill (having used it in the past its a ped chewer) therefore the higher loot return on average.

    Therefore I don't think the loot type would have any effect on loot return as long as it uses the same amount.

    edit:Maybe you remember the test done with a Mann MPH on Dasp.
    As you can imagine with its regen this took quite a bit longer and therefore cost more to kill and showed loot was proportionate to cost to kill.
    This was done a long time ago though.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 16, 2014
  5. SallyBridges

    SallyBridges Adviser Arkadia Adviser

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  6. Jod

    Jod Well-Known Member

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  7. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    Yeah I really don't see how ammo type could affect what loot you get...

    For me the answer is simple: if I need more ammo, convert the shrapnel to ammo... if I have too much shrapnel then sell it to another player for something over 100%. If I need it fast, then TT it. I am mostly melee right now but I use a tagger and the amount of universal ammo I get will probably be just about right.
     
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  8. Kitten

    Kitten Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    i did a 700 ped hunt on songkra valey and got 620 ped of shrapnel lol it was a good run total loot of 900 which covered decay and ammos
     
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  9. Murkalael

    Murkalael Active Member

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    Actually was stated from staff members or MA website (I don't really recall), that shrapnel would be replacing some of the loot. In some cases is good, I like to call this extended play on a run. Yesterday I bought ped weapon cells and went after bokol, just one of them dropped me extra 5 ped of shrapnel, so my run lasted longer than I planned and at least this time I returned with 20ped loot even without globals. When your regular ammo ends, it will switch automatically to universal ammo and vice versa.
     
  10. Craggan

    Craggan Member

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    I personally hoard my shrapnel and convert in bulk of at least 200 ped stacks just to make a run that is easier to track. My returns last night anyway were decent with using the universal compared to standard ammo. I also like the fact that I don't have to carry multiple ammo types for when a gun or amp breaks and can just change from blp to laser at any time in the hunt. What annoys me is the insane amount of shrapnel AND ammo that is dropping from mobs now at least on Calypso. Haven't done any hunts on Ark yet since the VU but plan to come over there sometime this weekend for a key run hopefully.
     
  11. Lizzy

    Lizzy Deactivated User

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    Well, there are two things that come with the shrapnel.

    1 : You get longer runs if you convert then right away, increasing your chance on hitting something nice along the way.

    2 : MA having replaced a % of loot with the shrapnel takes away potential MU above 101%, increasing the chance of losses.

    The tests you have done are with weapons that have different eco, resulting in different loot outcomes. You get the so-called 90% back of you cost-to-kill from an average loot.

    My suggestion on what you should do with the shrapnel, I can't suggest much. My best suggestion is to not do anything with it until the end of the run. See what your hunting results are, and then make the choice; Do I hunt with the new ammo, or do I TT it and go with my normal blp/laser ammo from the TT?

    The topic I wonder the most on is what is best for melee users to do...
     
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  12. Jod

    Jod Well-Known Member

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    Well for a start dont convert 800ped of it into un-TT-able ammo by mistake like this dopey bugger did:banghead:
     
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  13. Lizzy

    Lizzy Deactivated User

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    Ouch, that's gotta hurt....
     
  14. Jod

    Jod Well-Known Member

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    Well I blasted it away anyway,as you do,and came back with 1800ped TT so ...blessing in disguise?
     
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  15. Lizzy

    Lizzy Deactivated User

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    Sounds indeed like a blessing in disguise!
     
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  16. DominiK

    DominiK Member

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    personnaly, i don't TT universal ammo, i convert it then store them ( cause if converted, they are automaticaly use prior normal ammos, so i use all my normals, then unstock from storage, or wait the end of run to convert).
    Plus, instead of blp or laser, you can use the universal ammo with some chips :) (don't know if high level chips take univ ammo as ammo^^, if not, i u nderstand that uber and high level don't take it in consideration, but for noobz and low level players, it can be cool to use it in chips)

    when it hunt with universal, i don't found any difference than with only laser ammo (i m a noob, so i hunt noob mob and have noob loot, very low value, so i think the difference is not perceptible at our level.)

    so, in noob side :
    -TT -> 100%
    -Convert -> 101%
    loot difference -> 0% at low level

    MA probably make this for new player better experience, so i think for Ubers and High lev, to try to make some stack and go make trade with noobs (100 - 101 %) -> noob is happy to have some universal ammo instead os stacks (some will cry of 1% more expensive, they just dont understand the advantage of universal ammo, all have a cost, pratcicality to switch weapons without carring about "have i buy blp or have i forgot^^")
    Uberz 'n' High Lev -> you dont lose too much appart the % of loot in lootpool shrapenel take the place of

    Idea : trade shrapenel with Sweat near sweat circle, so that you can acquire sweat, and newbz can acquire ammos without throwing ped in TT machines :)
    with a TT price or 101% it can be a good deal for all the people, and TT machine don't get feed all the time with the sweat circle money. And we can, in a no so short term, see the incidence on economy with such strategy :) (less sweat from mobz, so sweat price go higher, noobz make more peds, then eco go down, and cycle this way^^)
     
  17. wournos

    wournos Active Member

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    Not much thought has gone into the conversion of shrapnel on my part. I've converted some but are currently just storing it all. I've gone melee but don't know for how long. Maybe permanently.
    Also, I don't overthink loot strategy. I want to enjoy the game without too much of it ending up in statistics.
     
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  18. Granny Rowan

    Granny Rowan Active Member

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    I didn't vote as while converting to ammo up until now, am seriously looking at TT see item 3 below.So undecided in the long term

    I have to say as time goes on I am hating shrapnel more and more.
    1. As a hunter / crafter I am seeing big changes in my regular (craftable) loots, more and more of my loot is shrapnel or ammo, this has to push up MU on craft materials. So hunters should be happy...until they need to buy crafted items and scream the crafters have put up their prices. I am already finding I am having to buy loots I used to hunt for myself on Arkadia, so only a matter of time before I have to up my sale prices.
    So who will gain..
    the hunter ? well only until they need to replace their (L) weapon, Armour or Fap - so no
    the crafter ? short term reduced profit margin until they raise prices and then reduced sales at least until market rebalances..so no
    MA - ah yes ..there we have it..more sales of mats through AH and higher priced mats and higher priced tools/wep/armour etc = Higher AH fee.. so MA is the one that gains our ped yet again.

    2. Use of the universal ammo itself.. in order to track my hunt returns I only carry either Universal or normal ammo. I never start a hunt with both. So ammo used should be easy.. but is it ? .. I heard reports that it does not as suggested always use universal first, but may randomly start using any looted real ammo, this certainly makes it harder to determine at end of hunt what loots the mobs dropped - which will be important when mob specific loots come to planets other than Caly

    3. Universal ammo not usable in space...wtf...why not...it is 'Universal' (NOW FIXED)

    So every time I go to space, which I do a lot, I have to remember to check ammo, put away universal and buy or get back from storage my laser and blp ammo. Not a difficult task, but when in a hurry, easy to forget.. I have already ended up facing pirates with no useable ammo
    and at least 2 x more had to call to SS to buy ammo when I realised I had no ammo for my quad.
    Imo only a matter of time before some poor soul gets shot and looted cos the Universal ammo is useless. The kingdom was lost for the want of a horse shoe nail.

    WOW... I posted this thread during todays server downtime...imagine my surprise on logging in after the update, to be told by a friend that universal ammo does now work in space. This has to be the fastest MA ever fixed one of my whinges lol

    4. as a regular melee skiller I also object to the disadvantage this places on melee users

    5 On the plus side if you now shove all shrapnel in storage until you have enough to buy a CLD or AUD you can either TT it or switch to hunting with universal only. All loots from those runs are then used to buy CLD's / AUDs. You would be surprised how quick it mounts up.
    So a nice easy way to create your own in game loose change jar or piggy-bank.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 29, 2014
  19. KMax

    KMax Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    I am pretty sure I have read somewhere that MA stated they do not get the taxes of AH sales as payment from playing to screw people out of their ped. It actually gets placed back in the lootable stockpile that players can get. MA makes their money off taking a share off the top of any deposit as it gets cycled into the lootable stockpile until they get their specified share of any deposit, along with any sales of Land, Deeds, Apartments or anything else MA directly sells.

    So as far as I know all taxes and other in game costs are cycled back into the game for players to keep looting as a self sufficient system. The people making the ped in the long run are the ones that hit it good and play smart, I am not one of them BTW I seem to play the gambling game to much :D
     
  20. Spike Black

    Spike Black Active Member

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    I went low level melee a long time ago when vu10 launched, I'm just tt'ing it for now.

    One thing I have noticed that the Halix loot has changed and some of the resources appear to have started increasing in MU by a couple of percentage points. And I've not looted an extractor for a while, maybe I should sell the 21 stacks I've got in storage soon.

    At the moment I think I'm getting 1/4 to 1/3 loot as ammo / shrapnel and fewer types of stackables.
     

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