well yes, i guess fair point with the 95% TT return harmony and neil, it is possible to reach this figure long term before costs, but it is only possible, and certainly not automatic, from what i understand from the statistical analysis of mining loot done by Falkao you do need to hit some of the extremely rare loot classes to reach this figure, and according to his analysis there are many people that dont get these results. and neil, i did say it is nothing personal, i know you are very helpful and if i thought you were only beating the drum for someone i would of just said that, and i certainly dont dismiss everything you say. you do however seem to have a tendency to disagree with some criticism that i personally feel is justified. i dont know how different our results are but my results for the past 3 months are public, i have been posting them on another forum, they are better than 90% TT return, but i try not to make blanket statements based upon my results. i think that most of the time i qualify what i say so anyone reading understands that what i experience is just that, my experience. i get a lot of questions both in game and on the other forum from people because they dont get the results i do. if you had said straight away that you break even after markup on tripple dropping because you sell treasure to yourself at 110% then the picture would of been a little clearer for anyone reading? the reason i remember that weapons dont drop from treasure mining was that i presumed they would too, the a-team talked of treasure hunting and this led to my misconception, only when i saw a post from a dev team member that said that treasure hunting was the instances and UL weapons would only drop there that i finally understood that treasure mining is not treasure hunting.