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Treasure Hunting: looks like nobody bothers anymore

Discussion in 'Treasure Hunting' started by slupor, Oct 25, 2012.

  1. Fallen

    Fallen Member

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    well yes, i guess fair point with the 95% TT return harmony and neil, it is possible to reach this figure long term before costs, but it is only possible, and certainly not automatic, from what i understand from the statistical analysis of mining loot done by Falkao you do need to hit some of the extremely rare loot classes to reach this figure, and according to his analysis there are many people that dont get these results.

    and neil, i did say it is nothing personal, i know you are very helpful and if i thought you were only beating the drum for someone i would of just said that, and i certainly dont dismiss everything you say. you do however seem to have a tendency to disagree with some criticism that i personally feel is justified. i dont know how different our results are but my results for the past 3 months are public, i have been posting them on another forum, they are better than 90% TT return, but i try not to make blanket statements based upon my results. i think that most of the time i qualify what i say so anyone reading understands that what i experience is just that, my experience. i get a lot of questions both in game and on the other forum from people because they dont get the results i do.

    if you had said straight away that you break even after markup on tripple dropping because you sell treasure to yourself at 110% then the picture would of been a little clearer for anyone reading? :)

    the reason i remember that weapons dont drop from treasure mining was that i presumed they would too, the a-team talked of treasure hunting and this led to my misconception, only when i saw a post from a dev team member that said that treasure hunting was the instances and UL weapons would only drop there that i finally understood that treasure mining is not treasure hunting.
     
  2. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    Others can do it too, not just me. The 110% I referred to is often lower than the current MU for those treasures I listed. I just use that number to reflect my "cost" to obtain the materials (using a conservative 90% return rate for mining). On my logs, I list the "Part of" treasures as having a MU of 100%, since I TT most of them.

    Current MUs on those treasures that I "sell to myself" at 110%:
    110% Aakas
    110% Aarkan
    107% Chemset
    108.5% Khorudoul
    115% Songkra
    118% Songtil
    105% Vedacore
    116% Khorum
    104% Fossil Tooth

    So someone who's actually selling the materials on auction should be able to do just as well. Of course the market won't bear a lot of heavy volume, so if everyone treasure hunts, it would kill the MU.

    Can you link to that post? My understanding is that the A-team has used "treasure hunting" to refer to multiple things, including the alienware deeds, the treasure hunting system (mining), and instances.
     
  3. Fallen

    Fallen Member

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    well of course others can do this, i can count all my hunting loot as having a markup of 110% to reflect my cost of obtaining it, and sell it to myself and tell myself i am breaking even but i can imagine the reaction if i started a public log based on this premise :)
    i hope you understand why this is very different from your original statement that i objected to because it did not reflect my experience of average markup when triple dropping while testing treasure mining.

    someone who is actually selling on auction could do, only as you say, they cant, because the market just is not there.
    and here we come to the point where you in the end agree with the premise of the OP, and my point in objecting to your blanket statement, in practical terms the way things stand treasure mining is dead. the way treasure mining was initially presented was that this made it possible for miners to increase their turnover, but if you increase your turnover without being able to sell the end product this makes no economic sense at all. this is not something that pleases me in case i gave that impression, i think i am the type of miner that the a-team would of liked to attract to treasure mining, i use lvl5 amps all the time, my mining is all about "high" turnover.

    i wish i could easily, and im sorry i dont really have the time to go looking for the post in question, i remember it was a post right after the VU where there was a rain of items from the instances, including weapons, and there was feedback/complaints from miners about the drop rate of items in instances compared to the drop rate of items in treasure mining, shortly after that the rate at which SOOTO's appeared while treasure mining increased drastically.
    im sure you could ask the a-team to clarify if you wish more concrete proof?
     
  4. slither

    slither Active Member

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    Weapons do drop while treasure mining, someone discovered one a week or two back.

    From tracker:

     
  5. rastamannen

    rastamannen Member

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    I agree about the TH part, right now its not working very well. Im getting the same results from hunting, im not a hardcore hunter like fluske but so far ive killed around 2000 otorugis, 250 scoria, 300 beladoths and 1000 nusuls + some smaller creatures since mission VU. The stuff with MU that ive looted is:

    a few peds outputs
    1 404 artic
    some yellow paint
    2 ESI's 10+19 ped

    I think ive been unlucky, i really hope that this isnt the way it should be cuz then i will go bankrupt pretty fast :)
    I dont count with looting something UL cuz theyve seemed to drop right after the VU was deployed.
    But i love this planet anyway, its just tough with no markup in loot and my ped balance isnt so great now so i can save hides and stuff to sell them for 1-3% mu. I guess i could sell some stuff to myself to improve my returns but i cant se my ped balance growing with that tactic :)
     
  6. Ridan

    Ridan Active Member

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    Rofl 90% tt return since after VU??? :D. Atm im at 68% :D last 15 runs 1 positive :D
    So yeah someone win somone loose :)
     
  7. rastamannen

    rastamannen Member

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    Well about those 90% return Ridan, its not written in stone. It depends on what level u are, what mob u hunt, ammount of decay on armours etc. I know many people have done tests and so on, I would agree that 90% return in the long run exists if they did a test with lets say 5 people with the exact same hunting gear, they hunt the same mob at the same time, after that they can compare results.

    I dont track my results to carefull but i dont even end up at profit even if i dont count in gun decay, but thats just my gut feeling.
    If u play smart, log out if u get bad loots etc it might improve alot.
     
  8. Samuel Sam Robet

    Samuel Sam Robet Active Member Pro Users

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    We all have diff theories :) I fight through the bad hunts. Here is a snapshot of my hunting since last vu.

    Spiders Killed: 2,775 // 9.61 ped per kill

    I Have spent 26,656.55 Ped. (including all gun markup, and other markup I decayed on)

    My loot in pure TT is 23,931.14
    My loot with MU is : 27,022.12
    My Markup gained on that loot has been 3,090.98 ped. This is markup once the items have sold and not theoretical markup.

    TT Retruns (With mu spent on weapons and such): 89.78% -2,725.41
    MU Returns: 101.37% +365 ped (i still have a bunch in storage to sell to add to this once the stacks get big enough to maximize the mu).

    my 2 pecs: I save my loot and sell it at max MU. I just wait for the market to get high. Example: Heart oil was at 120% daily this morning. I took advantage of this and sold 2 stacks on ah. 1 stack is still pending.

    ANother example: Spleen oil is at 108% today. It sometimes fetches for 113%. So I will be sitting on my stacks of that for 1-2 weeks if needed.

    3rd Example: I did the steel bird mission in the summer, the SK50 was at 120% mu then, but it gets to 127% in the fall. I JUST started selling my sk50 collection (about 20 faps). cause 7% of
    1052.32 ped is a good amount of ped.

    So .. i guess my point is... yes you get 90% + better returns. My last 2 hunts I lost 600 ped in tt. As we speak I have my amps filled, plenty of ammo, and my vtol is spawned at tukar... ready to hit the spiders. IMO fight through the bad hunts. It goes in swings.

    You need to find the markup in order to break even. Or else hunt a lower level mob with less hp. Then you will just loose slower. WHich is fine. I paid the piper a ton when I was skilling up to be able to kill decent mobs.

    But if we dont pay MA/Ark/RT/whomever we like. then the game does not exist :)

    ps. sorry to sidetrack from TH discussion.

    - Sam
     
  9. Ridan

    Ridan Active Member

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    Hunting?? im talking bout my mining since VU :D. Decay here for me is minimal its only TT ut TT in basicly :D. And yes I sell most of my items high I tt basicly nothing mostly. But al in al with now 16 runs 1 profit and TT return is not over 70% since VU this is hitting my ped card quite hard :). I dont really give a damn anymore tbh I realise im here to have fun if this keeps up im not having fun hence my time here will decrease :).

    Mainly I was pointing that towards neil and fallens discusison bout 90% return mining. Not al of us are doing good atm :=).

    And with TH MU as is and prolly decreasing even more now that we have another 5k cld comming well it wont make life easier :D
     
  10. Samuel Sam Robet

    Samuel Sam Robet Active Member Pro Users

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    Sorry to hear mate, i was just responding the huntign comment I quoted :)

    About the mining: Well .. since there is an onslaught of bad ass guns on calypso now, this means there is less demand for ark guns. I used to buy a lot of ark guns, since i eat guns like candy. Now it makes no sense for me to purchase ark guns when the calypso ones are way better and better eco.

    Thats really hurting the mining on arkadia. Cause believe it or not, a ton of the crafted weapons on arkadia (which use your ores/ and such) are sold on calypso. I would wager its the majority.

    MA needs to allow Arkadia to have new bps ASAP. Cause using an Asi 40 Artic vs a Zero-Four or asg-12 bucket is a no brainer. The crafter would loose way 2 much to compete with the new calypso ones.

    So the economy is a large circle, and I think the new eco weapons have a huge effect on the arkadian market. Nearly 10 hunters in my soc eat guns at a rapid rate, and most if not all have stopped buying ark guns.

    soooo David, sir. Please tell MA you need new bps :) Id love to use some nifty ark guns again.

    I also craft 1 gun from arkadia.. the Asi 20 D. I used to make 20-30 a week and sell them all in 1 week. Since new VU ... i didnt do my last run .. cause I still have 6 left from 2 weeks ago. They do not sell so well anymore. Hard to compete with the calypso equivalent. Oh and I usualy buy ore/enmatter from miners on ark ... just not anymore since I can't sell my pistols. =(
     
  11. rastamannen

    rastamannen Member

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    I do agree with u Sam but we dont know for sure that 90% is for all avatars yet. I also wanted to say (eventhough he was talking about mining) that if u have low evade skills, high decay armor and hunt scoria for an example, i doubt they will have 90% return, u need to hunt smart to get those 90%. But I still want to see an experiment when 5-10 people hunt the same mob with same gear at same time and after a few thousand peds they compare results.
    What bothers me is that ive had 3 terrible months return wise, I only use maxed SIB gear and hunt mobs within my level.
    Since i dont take notes on my returns i cant give any exact figures, but its around 75-80% both in hunting and mining (i do check returns after every run). As u say, I have a bad loot period, but as we all know MA stated that there is no personal loot pool, i dont know what they really mean by that but there are alot of "what if's" in my head :) What if I go afk for three months starting today, when i log back in will i have a nice streak thats compensating me for my lousy returns? What if i decide to suddenly hunt halix for the upcoming three years? Will i have a steady small profit all the time to get me back to 90% or will they give me a 5k ped HOF? Those things bother me :)
    Before CE2 came along i did ALOT of mining 95% of the time I was unamped, i had a steady profit from MU in PVP4 and my TT returns was around 90% so i really dont doubt that figure. But my latest results are confusing me :p
     
  12. Fallen

    Fallen Member

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    well thats me corrected then :)
    ty for that info, and i could swear that i saw that post from a member of the a-team, i can even remember my disappointment, i guess now i do need to go dig up that post :p

    although when im wrong i dont mind admitting im wrong
     
  13. AlexSolo

    AlexSolo Member

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    Hello,

    dont want to start another arkoin broker discussion as I saw there was a statement already and that thread is also closed.

    But I can say that I and maybe some others as well pmed snape some weeks ago regarding a section on the forum here to be added to gather info about the instances like scanning and counting all mob types, playing all level instances as a challenge, recording loot type, all that.

    With his help the section got in then and I made for every instance a single thread and such.

    I stopped after some 01er when the brokers where not active. Saw for me personally not much what i could need on the arkoin auctions or in the events.

    So that got on hold for me and Im flying through space since waiting for that until I maybe fly in a sunday to get at that again to complete them all over time.

    The reason why I stopped where indeed the missing brokers and it seems it got alot more quiet with Arkadia Studios regarding infos or interviews and so what may be a good sign of work, work, work and the meeting with mindark.

    I like calypso and rocktropia still arkadia is where i like to be best when i arrive and think that the time i spend on planet will increase again.

    Greets,
     
  14. KMax

    KMax Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    Jennifer added all the mob types to the Creatures section of this forum, I have done some preliminary scanning on LVL 1 mobs and some minor testing. She also has started adding data on entropedia.info all we have to do is populate it with valid information.
     
  15. chevrons

    chevrons Member

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    I'm adding a comment to this thread because I've had a better experience with starting Treasure Hunting. I came to Ark to increase my HP, expecting the loot to be as bad as Calypso has become.

    In fact after 1000 Ped, 667 drops, my return is 918 Ped TT. My highest finds are 2 X, no global yet. Selling with MU might add 25 Ped to that.

    But I've had 3 SOOTO, an Urn (TT), and 2 Mah'ketta Footguards, F TT+30 and M TT+110, so overall I'm in profit, and my HP has risen half a level.

    I'm Lvl 41 Prospector, but only Lvl 15 Treasure Hunter, so I've been using my old F-105, unamped.

    The low MU means it doesn't seem economic to use an amp, though that would speed the HP increase. I wonder if using an amp increases the frequency of SOOTO, just the TT value of the finds (which woud be bad), or increases the chances of rarer items with higher MU?

    I'll persevere at least until I get more HP, and hope for some more SOOTO or a global.
     
  16. Pretender

    Pretender Member

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    to use an amp efficiently you need markup however.


    as for sooto, they take cost in tt, and markup should be irrelevant to the finds value. the TT return should be calculated including sooto, since sooto takes the tt away from the claim. there are very nice things to be found with the treasure hunting system, but it is not valid to have 95% of your materials be (near) tt food, and 5% with a high markup (and it won't even come to that most likely)


    the way amps work is giving bigger claims, therefore allowing bigger tt SOOTO finds, which can include better MU items.
     
  17. Chuck Jarrdhead Wholrey

    Chuck Jarrdhead Wholrey Active Member

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    hmm, this thread is about miners and the economy they made..... The treasure resources started out with the MU too high to work with, other miners saw the new rates, jumped all over it..... then there was a glutt... and like most players in this game, they wanna sell their items fast, and refuse to hold a MU and just stand in line, so they undercut the price to tt food.

    As a crafter using these items i like the affordability of the current pricing. with the sales of the crafted items getting undercut, the resources need to stay low, or when the prices jump back up, the craters will just stop again, and wait for the miners to crash the economy like they have done time and time again. Im over a lvl 30 miner, so if the MU gets too high, I just go and get it myself.

    I would not consider the system broken... unless its the new resources, they are not available in large enough quantities to make it worth it. crafters dont want to have to spend 3 weeks to save up 10 ingots. and have 1k peds out in the process.... if we do that, then the MU falls the very next week. so we wait, and craft something else, or goto a different planet.... a good example, who uses Dunkel plastic? only gamblers not the crafters...

    I see good blueprints getting driven down in price. resources hitting rock bottom, and most of the time, its not the game that did that, its the players not waiting their turn.... if you dont like the MU, dont undercut the pricing.... if you see 10K of a resource on the AU, wait to post yours, or keep the same price and stand in line.

    Dont be part of the problem, Dont undercut! wait your turn
     
  18. strangelove

    strangelove Member

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    Huh? Who sets the official prices and where can I get a copy?

    Basically, from what I see, it's everyone else causing issues?

    It's just supply and demand. With a smaller economy than Caly, any changes one way or another are more disruptive to "stable pricing".

    What makes you think miners or anyone else wants to "wait 3 weeks" or have "1k peds out in the process". MU could collapse. There are over 100 resources on Ark, 100 ped of any one resource X 100 resources is 10k ped. Sometimes my cup runneth over with a single resource. Do you really expect me or anyone else to wait in line? It's never happened and never will.

    Rock. Paper. Scissors. Hunters, Crafters, Miners. One wins, one is tied, and one loses with every change.
     
  19. chevrons

    chevrons Member

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    I have now dropped 4k Ped (2668 bombs), and the TT return was 3728 Ped (93.2%), including 2 globals.

    MU on rares like Pirrel is 200 Ped, on others say 100 Ped, on SOOTO's including Mah'ketta Footguards M 140 Ped, so this should cover the deficit and decay, and bring the result to break-even. My HP has risen by just over 1 point.

    It seems most Treasure is used in making Keys though, and so there seems little hope of an increase in MU to justify using an Amp until MA fix the loot on the Keys, which is currently terrible. (My own experience, and from others reported here on the Forum).

    The results have been better than I expected, but not good enough to continue much longer. The Treasure system itself seems fine, the problem lies with the Key Instance Loot.
     

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