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The Idea of a Gift Economy. Sacred Economics.

Discussion in 'General Economy Discussion' started by Sparticas, Jul 20, 2012.

  1. Sparticas

    Sparticas Member

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    [video=youtube_share;EEZkQv25uEs]http://youtu.be/EEZkQv25uEs[/video]
     
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  2. Sparticas

    Sparticas Member

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    I Lost my Radio station. I Lie.
    [video=youtube_share;6ASCqM0qkOw]http://youtu.be/6ASCqM0qkOw[/video]
     
  3. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    Shouldn't this be moved to the OT forum? I don't see that it relates to EU.
     
  4. Sparticas

    Sparticas Member

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    Are you saying that Economics don't belong in EU? I think it should be left where it is for Debate.
     
  5. Puck

    Puck Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    Also, instead of just linking to videos, maybe the OP could comment themselves?

    For all we know, these are links to advertisements for bowel cleansing.
     
  6. Sparticas

    Sparticas Member

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    I think unless you have something to say about economics which is what this thread is about.. you should sHit down. hehe BM Brain.You may learn something.
     
  7. KMax

    KMax Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    I agree with Sparticas, this deserves a view, and explains the major issue with economics within EU.

    There is a part in the end where they talk about a person that owns all the bread and he has to decide what to do. That is pretty much any crafter or person in the game really with materials others need. Now in EU about 90% of everyone takes that road of do not give to others unless you pretty much take everything they own in exchange. This is what causes the EU economic collapse really, sure you don't give stuff away but you don't have to take everything another has in exchange either. Instead maybe exchange services, or items of compensating values as the video stats and economy will balance out better.

    EU economy is an economy of absolute greed, everyone is trying to take as much from the other as possible at all times instead of coming to an equilibrium. Because of this EU will always have this unstable economy. And this video explains why very well.

    So this video is in the appropriate spot and it should be viewed by anyone that doesn't understand the problem with EU's economy structure.
     
  8. Sparticas

    Sparticas Member

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    Well yes but I get more than that out of it. The social community aspect. Money De-constructs community in the game.There is a aspect to this game that can be a part of a new economy. And everyone wants to be a separatist about it. Just Saying.
     
  9. KMax

    KMax Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    Yes I agree and the video talks about that issue very well indeed. See my thread in services and how I try to help the economy socially and economically. These are small efforts but they do seem to have some impact on some people.
     
  10. Ben Coyote

    Ben Coyote Member

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    Go watch these cartoons and learn.. seriously

    Want my opinion?

    Go watch a cartoon..

    back in the 1950's Warner Brotehrs animation studios came out with two great short animated films that actually shows how economics do work...

    And in fact if you have 15 minutes to watch these two films you understand how competition, and doing things like crafting works... after all in game the economy is supposed to be based off of Mass consumption, Mass production

    First up is a short called By Word of Mouse. This was created back in 1954, and the reality of it shows how the economics should work.. Crafters hould be competitive to be able to sell their products to the people at a lower cost to the consumer..

    sure ignore the cat, but listen carefully.. it's very thoughtful:

    [video=youtube;kLJ1m7artbE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLJ1m7artbE[/video]

    This actually shows how an economy should work.. you mass produce an item and you get others to mass conume it...

    But the thing is.. it's this economic competition that should drive the markets on all 5 worlds..

    But the reality is .. you guys got it backwards.. You do want to move yours stuff.. but if you get too greedy and can't
    sell it, then you got wasted potential.. and you lose your auction fee..

    So maybe it's time to take a lesson from this cartoon and learn how to be really competitive..

    Benjamin Ben Coyote?
     
  11. Sparticas

    Sparticas Member

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    You are correct for a old world Economic model. This has become over the yrs to be proven ineffective in the long run. That is why there is a world wide economic crisis going on right now. Since EU is tied to this Old School economics it is going to be effected buy it's down falls as well. In a limited resource fish bowl. Eventually when the population grows so BIG the waste builds,The Oxygen supply in the water is far less. Disease starts to take hold and the whole fish bowl becomes uninhabitable for what it was for. Old Economic Model proven to fail. Mute point.. Thank you.
     
  12. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    Unfortunately, the idealistic "why can't everyone just be nice" theory of economics fails when you try to put it into practice. Human nature AKA the principles behind the "tragedy of the commons" will always restrict this kind of communal sharing to very small, tight-knit groups. Whenever it's applied to the general public it will fail. We've seen this happen over and over again IRL. Our world's current monetary problems don't arise from the current economic model, but from the current BANKING model. Completely different things.
     
  13. Sparticas

    Sparticas Member

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    Oh I would Have to Disagree with you on that it is the Banking system. First of all it is not the banks that encourage separatism and greed. Or cause the De-construction of Community bonds. The root of all politics is money as well as it the root of all Evil. Just as Charles say's in the Video if they Put a Negative interest rate on fed loans then the system becomes a Gift economy then even the banks could charge 0% interest and make money. It is there Economic Model. IE: If sweat was used to implement a secondary Gift economy in EU they would have to put it in a lot of things in conjunction with there current monetary system it could even have a neg TT Value Just as long as the Demand was fairly steady and the sweat tanker mobs was readily available for a constant demand. This would make sweating a intrigal part of the Economy and Important to Community building and sustainability. Now how this would work is that it would have a 0 or Neg tt Value at any stack amount to keep MA in the blue. Just a few changes and it would fly like wright bro's plane. keeping up supply would be just a matter of dragging new players in which word of mouth would do a great job(Best bang for Buck) old players they end up using there sweat could buy or sweat themselves becoming part of the Eco/Gift/Economy.Supply is easy Just have some Tanker mobs not so hard to kill or stay alive while solo sweating for mid-high lvl players. (IE:Mutated Dire Weeds. 400 sweat)
    Hey Look Edison had people convinced that Alternating current and Nicola Tesla was Wrong. Then they try to Discredit him (Crazy). Well he was a Man way before his time and this planet EARTH and mankind are better off because of him. Just think where we would be as Humans if we listened to the guy and even helped him.
     
  14. Spike Black

    Spike Black Active Member

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    Over the years I've played EU as the loots / costs got bigger the community spirit got smaller.

    Looking at the average cost of equipment when I began it was tiny compared to the "newbie" level of now.
     
  15. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    Odd, i don't seem to see any price increase in low level gear, i mostly see the markup on low level stuff drop a lot. I think the problem is that when people get more skilled they want to do harder (or too hard) mobs, using bigger guns and loosing more. It's still possible to run around in pixie and an opalo (or arkadian equivalent).
     

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