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State of Arkadian crafting?

Discussion in 'Crafting' started by remontoire, Aug 25, 2014.

  1. remontoire

    remontoire Member

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    I'm on a vacation on Ark, and was looking at various options to pass my time here - and something that struck me is that Ark crafting seems to be if not nearly non-existent, then fairly stagnant? There doesn't really seem to be a market for components. Outside of a handful of crafters, there doesn't seem to be all that much action, and of course there don't seem to be much auction activity?
     
  2. anthonymorris

    anthonymorris Platinum Member Platinum Member Arkadia Adviser

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    The problem is not with crafters as we (I’m an ark crafter) tend to find the mats our self mostly. The reason for me personally is look at the market prices. It is far more economical for me to hunt mine for my own mats as it is to buy them from the AH. I have a few trusted people that I have help me in collecting my supplies but if I were to buy all my mats from the AH I could not sell them for much of any profit.

    The reason is the success rate not every pull will produce a product, and the almost success returns mostly do not cover the cost to do the pull. So, more often than not it will be a loss I have said this countless times before “people can’t expect to get top ped for your loot and pay practically nothing for their product”. I would give detailed data but I don’t have it on me at this time.
     
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  3. remontoire

    remontoire Member

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    You mean to say this is not a problem for Ark crafters?

    Either there is a market for crafted components and items or there isn't. Right now you are merely confirming that there isn't, that its not as much stagnant as non-existent and that Ark crafters are at least partially the reason this is so.
     
  4. KikkiJikki

    KikkiJikki Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    I mostly make the components I need for my guns and such. I guess I am one of the handful. I'm hoping that with more booths and shops coming on the market some crafters will be able to take advantage of the opportunity to kick their business to a new level. More crafting will generate a more consistent demand for the miners and hunters loot. I'm one of the crafters that doesn't mine so I am depending on miners to find the stuff I need.
     
  5. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    Keep in mind that Ark uses very little or no Caly components, since not a lot of caly items are crafted here. I think you'll find most crafters make their own components, if for no other reason than to try and loot resonation amp bps. I do sell some components on auction.

    As for mineral prices vs crafted item prices, from my crafting logs the minerals don't seem too expensive to maintain a reasonable profit margin. If you're finding a shortage of some mineral, let me know and I'll see if we can boost the supply.
     
  6. anthonymorris

    anthonymorris Platinum Member Platinum Member Arkadia Adviser

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    Ok I will make it simple for you as kikki said most crafters craft their own components, so as for a market for them…. Well, No not really a market for them.

    You might think ark crafters are “partially responsible for it” but it is because miners and hunters are asking such outrageous prices for their looted/mined items. So that makes it almost impossible for the crafter to break-even much less make any profit on a typical run.

    When a success rate to craft an item runs around 20-30% it’s hard to keep your prices reasonable when you are paying outrageous MU on mats/comp/etc. So how most crafters try to control this is by crafting their own comp aswell as hunting and mining for items they need. There are some crafters like kikki who depend on players for mined items and crafters like me who ---- sometimes just don’t have the time to go out and get the stuff they need.

    What I and many others do is put orders on the AH for items we might need at a mu we fill will help us break even or even might help us make a better return on our crafting run. With the success/fail ratio it can at times be difficult.

    I’m not saying crash the market on mu but come-on let’s be realistic look at some of the MU people are trying to get for ore’s and emats It’s just silly. I really would not mind paying that much for the mined goods but no one will by the product I craft for the mu I have to charge. So it’s a lose, lose for me as a crafter.
     
  7. remontoire

    remontoire Member

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    Yes, I got that.

    There is no free influx of money, somebody is ultimately paying for the MU. I do understand that. I also understand about CoS. I was mainly trying to find out what the market looked like, not assign blame ... for whatever. It is also not like the situation of "you can craft whatever you want, but TT is the best offer around" isn't familiar to me.
     
  8. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    You're exaggerating. Success rate is not 20-30%. Most minerals are not overpriced. Keep better records and/or use a better crafting cost calculator. I keep track of my costs to craft and Ark material MUs aren't unreasonable, with a few exceptions (WENREX @ 400% makes everything containing wenrex unprofitable).

    Don't expect every craftable item, especially components, to be profitable. Far from it. Find the items that can be sold for profit and craft those. This is the challenge of crafting, it's just how the profession works.

    BTW I do sell components when I have some free auction slots (=rarely). But because of the chance to find resonation amp bps, and ofc the fact that components on the auction house tend to be much higher than they should be, I prefer to craft my own. List components at normal prices (~ 10% profit) and many of them will sell.
     
  9. anthonymorris

    anthonymorris Platinum Member Platinum Member Arkadia Adviser

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    Well Neil that’s your opinion and while I respect that, you are also a seller of you mined goods so I expected you to say the prices are reasonable. Why would you say otherwise? If you did that would mean what you are selling is well….. Overpriced :lol:.

    As for records I keep plenty I’m not talking about near successes, I’m talking about actual crafted items. And no I’m not saying components but rather items people use like armor/weapons/etc. components are a necessity in most crafts. But I’m talking about the items they produce, and remember you mine for your mats and sell the rest on AH to try and cover your losses. I know I used to do the same thing until I bought my shop now I craft to supply my shop (which sells out a lot due to my prices).

    So you mine and use your mind mats like I said most do, it is different when you mine it yourself then when you have to pay MU for it that is crazy high. I’m surprised you did not plug LBML saying they are such a great resource to use. So I have done very well in my crafting and the selling of my goods thanks to my personal record keeping so I don’t think it’s that.
     
  10. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    Unfortunately you're wrong. I use current market values of resources for my calculations of cost to craft. Maybe you need to re-evaluate your prices, calculations, or your beliefs about market values.
     
  11. anthonymorris

    anthonymorris Platinum Member Platinum Member Arkadia Adviser

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    what ever Neil you do it your way thats cool but your not always right and plz stop turning this thread into another thread about the all and powerful Neil. nuff said
     
  12. KikkiJikki

    KikkiJikki Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    Before this thread turns personal (too late?), I''ll chip in on the profit issue. It's not that hard to profit in crafting if you pay attention to what you are doing and avoid the temptation to go for quick loss generating sales. This month I am looking at around 11k ped profit but my typical monthly profit is 2-3k.

    I too have some issues with the current MU on some materials. Right now that's Halix tails, Wenrex, Somin, Pearl. But I either
    - ride it out and take a hit to my profit margin
    - adjust my prices
    - or don't craft those items until I can work out how to turn a profit.

    And clearly having a ped reserve can help immensely as you can afford to stockpile resources when they are cheaper.

    Right now I am not crafting the Hotfoot 20,25 owing to the Halix tail MU as I am reluctant to push the price up on the amps.

    Basically the responsibility is on the crafter to deal with the situation as it is. It's no point blaming the greed of other players.

    Back on the OP topic, I have to agree that it is probably difficult for component crafters. Most item crafters probably have full Ark component bp books. When I first started, I crafted all my own components because one of my goals was skilling. Maybe I should now be paying more attention to what components are available in auction but they will have to be priced very competitively for me to buy them.

    But for crafters of end products this should be a good time to be working. The recent sale of more shops points to increased player activity on Ark as that was a prerequisite for the sale. The custom channels also help a lot as the planet population is now a lot more connected.
     
  13. wournos

    wournos Active Member

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    I have a question for you advanced crafters. If MU dropped to reasonable prices for you to craft your items would that mean you in turn would reduce your prices to lower MU of final product? Not saying any of you are overpriced, I'm just curious. :)
     
  14. KikkiJikki

    KikkiJikki Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    I occasionally do that now. For example, I initially priced Ark54D at 545 ped. Over time it has ranged between 500 and 550 ped and the last ones to go on the shelves were priced at 525 ped.

    For all my weapons I have target MU based on what I think I would be prepared to pay for a weapon of that size. This is unrelated to cost of production. I also keep an idea on auction MU to see what my competitors are doing. If I am reasonably consistently profiting on an weapon and I can afford to move it closer to my target MU then that is what I do. You will often see new large weapons initially priced fairly highly and then come down over time as I get a better idea of the cost to craft.

    However there is a proportion of my stock that I consistently take a loss on and that is ok (kind of). Right now I am losing on around 50% of the range which is a little more than I would like. But I can absorb that loss as long as it doesn't hit my bottom line too much. If there is a high volume of sales or the loss per item is high then I need to push up the price. By providing affordable weapons across the whole range as a service, I generate goodwill and garner long term customers who will probably keep coming back to me when the level up to use the weapons that generate profit. That's a key part of my business model and it appears to be working.

    However, I am clearly not going to drop prices on weapons that are already losing me money, and I also need to cover that loss through sales of other weapons.

    Regards,
    KikkiJikki
     
  15. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    Most crafters won't.
    Ask yourself this question, if you could get a gun 10% cheaper, would you sell any looted halix tails below markup as well?
     
  16. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    The answer is yes... and no... most crafters wouldn't WANT to lower the price, but because of competition they almost always have to lower it to keep selling, especially if they're selling on auction where competition is fiercest. But if an item is selling great at the higher price, the crafter likely won't lower it.
     
  17. anthonymorris

    anthonymorris Platinum Member Platinum Member Arkadia Adviser

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    then it is up to the buyer to chose the crafter they purchase from. All i can say is brows the local shops see where the value is
     
  18. narfi

    narfi Active Member Pro Users

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    I am not much of a crafter and when I am it is usually more grind crafting than production crafting.
    But here is my 2pec on weapon markup.

    A weapon(L)*markup with Amp(L or UL)*markup has to fall within a certain adjusted eco damage per pec.
    If the adjusted dpp is poor, then only enough will sell to be considered a hobby craft.
    If the adjusted dpp is good, then it can be a production item IF the crafter can maintain production for that price.
    If the adjusted dpp is amazing, then it will be a very high production item and there will be steep competition among the crafters and markup on resources used by that print will go up.

    When it comes down to it, there are enough looted and crafted weapons at all ranges available in this universe, that it is not the crafter who can set the price on a weapon. The hunters determine the price they will pay for the weapons according to availability and price of competitive weapons of similar type.

    In the same way that the crafter can not truly set the price of weapons (sure they can set the price they sell at, but they can not set the price that the items will actually be purchased at in volume) the hunters and miners can not set the price their loot and ores will be bought at.

    Ultimately it is the purchaser who sets the price of what they buy dependent on the price of what their customers buy from them.

    Hunters set the price of weapons, Miners set the price of amps, crafters set the price of loot and ores.

    Sure you can say "Crafters sell their guns too high, and buy loot too low". but if this was true, then other crafters would step in and undercut their prices on hunting/mining gear while paying more for loot and ores.

    Crafters can say "Sell me your loot and ores cheaper if you want cheaper weapons". But if someone is willing to pay a high markup for them, why should you sell for lower?

    There has to be a balance, and until that balance is reached, there can only be hobby Crafters who gather their own resources and manufacture their goods in small quantities.

    Until there is a high demand for the goods there will not be a high demand for the resources.

    The down side of when it does reach a balance is that everyone will loose evenly, while during an imbalance you can play the markets and trends and profit or loose depending on your skills and research.
     
  19. Snape

    Snape Master of the BanHammer Staff Member PAF Administrator

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    We (SFE) do. Its been our policy from the start and anyone that is subscribed to our monthly newsletter can see it. Sometimes the prices will shift by a tiny amount and we will absorb the increases if they are under a certain percentage or will increase our margin a little in the oppose direction.....but the overall policy stays, we base our prices on the our cost to craft.

    Sometimes this seems the sales drop off a little, at other times we struggle to keep up with them....but in the long run, we have a sustainable business model which is why we are still around after 8 years ;)
     
  20. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    While that is very nice, it also means your prices can be over current markup in auction :)
     

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