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Spartoline! Freeing the sweat slaves!

Discussion in 'Wishlist' started by Sparticas, Jun 27, 2012.

  1. Sparticas

    Sparticas Member

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    Spartoline!!! Better than rocket fuel!!! Woohoo!!!
    Oh hey did I tell you? You better have my gas money or your not gettin in..
    Oh yeah food and health toniks for pets/Steeds they need some sweat oops did i say that? hehe. wonder what comes out the other end?
     
  2. Sparticas

    Sparticas Member

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    Well look at it this way there are newbie vehicles. wonder where the noobs will get the oil for that? I guess they will be subsidising the oil market.
     
  3. AlexSolo

    AlexSolo Member

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    Hello,

    Sweating is for sure no PR tool to promote EU. It's the most boring activity ingame with the smallest outcome due to it's free.
    It only brings a small percentage of people to deposit cause it's that boring.

    And to your "dungification" comment: If you want to convince others about any idea it always matters who subsidizes whom and for what in return. You claim for yourself to sell your sweat constantly and your solution to reach that is to force vehicle drivers to buy from you or do the most boring activity there is.

    And overall I even explained to you in what term I would support the idea but you seem to not care.

    Maybe you get it when I explain your type of solution in another way:
    "Disband sweating from the game so no one fells like a slave and it wont matter cause everyone who can afford a house, power and internet connection plus a proper PC to run EU has 15 dollar per month to deposit for sure"

    See that is your type of solution. Got it now?

    Greets,
     
  4. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    This is true... sweating not a profitable activity... it costs more for the electricity to run the computer than you get in sweat peds. It's an in-game activity that allows you to gather resources, skills, and chat. It's not a money-making or business venture. Now maybe it should be... I don't know. I guess that's a question that MA has to answer.
     
  5. Sparticas

    Sparticas Member

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    Ahh yeah it is a PR tool. it is a social tool. wth else would it be? it get people together sweating a mob talking meeting people he if it sells and they can buy a tool to do something else that is exciting.. they go tell there friends hey come check this real cash economy game I did this and did this it's worth this and the whole 9 yrds. so how you can say it isn't a PR tool I have no idea what your thinking it is.

    I never Claimed to sell sweat consistantly. For any price. I use the sweat I sweat and buy when I need to. I use the ME I make. When I have the nexus to make it and I buy it off the auction as well..quite a bit of it. Since the changes started around time vehicles came out and chips came back. I have sold almost 0 ME on the auction for various reasons. I use all I make and have none to spair. There Refiner conversion of the ME has changed and put wrench in for most part 2nd part not finding the amounts of nex was 3 yrs ago. Mining changes screwed me as well I had some enmat finder bp's that was going for 40 ped a BP then they pulled those and replaced them so.. Tell ya truth it's time for a change.. and i'm going to make it if it takes 6 more yrs of me doing this diatribe. it's time for the next gamer to get it..
     
  6. AlexSolo

    AlexSolo Member

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    Hello,

    there is the first time now people can have a view about what happend.

    You got personal bad experience with dynamic decisions of the system. Always consider in those situations that there might be others who don't have made bad experience with the same things. Evangelism is never a good way to convince others as they already saw that it was no problem for them and the result is they can't estimate what you mean or want and so others get angry/scared/feel offended/attacked and so on depending on the character and that is natural and human.

    Try to consider:
    - Is there anything you can change on your side?
    - Is there anything you can learn from others?

    If you believe a change in a systems part is needed focus on scientific description and scientific arguements.

    - How could a new vehicle be designed? How much fuel would it need? What advantage have people from filling the new fuel instead of plain oil?

    A breakthrough in the term of EU vehicles could be:

    - Vehicle uses less of that new fuel than they use now in oil so there is either no increase of fuel costs or just a minor increase.
    - Vehicle gains significant advantages using that fuel such as 33% - 66% plus on travel speed (great for a quadwing interceptor)
    - Vehicle gains more power to speed up to pull more weight for miners or space travellers

    I would be excited when EU would offer an dynamic world where such factor like pollution come in place. The more colonists use vehicles the more toxic areas for instance evolve which have influence on activity inside economy due to impact on nature. Sour rain causing small acid damage in polluted areas or impact wooden areas etc.

    We dont have that so less pollution by using this type of fuel is out of the game here.

    Can you present us an design for such vehicle so we can have a look at an touchable solution please?

    Thanks and greets,

    Solo
     
  7. Snape

    Snape Master of the BanHammer Staff Member PAF Administrator

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    Very interesting topic and discussion here guys. We've received several complaints about the thread (off topic posts and inflammatory posts etc) but the Admin team feel that the discussion here is still healthy enough and no real flaming is going on so we are not going to step in and delete peoples posts as has been requested a couple of times.

    However, be aware that we are reading this thread too so keep it constructive and civil please.
     
  8. Ridan

    Ridan Active Member

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    Sweating is a tool and a good one in times. Ive started there and so did many of my friends. Back then I still recomended this to other ppl and started to deposit. From there well it just wasnt the same.

    Tbh how many of you can say U can recomend this game to friends and family? My opinion is that aslong as that answer is NO from the majority of the ppl playing well thats the main and major problem for the universe. If thats not solved this game will never evolve.

    This post got abit OT but still is a part of the issue started up. The sweaters are not really slaves they just choose to work for a low amount of money :)
     
  9. Sparticas

    Sparticas Member

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    Love this post right on the money.. PUT YOUR PED WHERE YOUR PR SLAVES ARE!!!
     
  10. Sparticas

    Sparticas Member

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    Well I'm far from my Top Notch artistic yrs. But I think I may be able to come up with something that will make you cross your Eye's with wonder and say what is this guy Crazy or Genius? Eather way all vehicles need to have acess to the use of it in order for sweat demand to put buyer puting even 1 ped per k in sweaters pockets any time of day. with the way things are there may need to be more done than just that as someone has posted before. What i need is a scetch artist to toss me a favor token and help out. But something like a Ford model T With V8 looking Modern Engine in it and instead of wheeles it has 4 Rocket type S drives connected to the v8 looking motor,(Steampunk Flavor) the thing about it maybe have a choptop type Space Modual. only lasts so long or something Really would like release to be on my home planet if implemented first or if Implemented at all.. Pimped out spinner rims cost extra.. hehe MR MAGOO WHERE ARE U?
    [video=youtube_share;BUf8q2toBx4]http://youtu.be/BUf8q2toBx4[/video]
    But without the wobble and a whole lot more KEWL not cool.
     
  11. Sparticas

    Sparticas Member

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    Oh yeah the KEWL Rims Evangalized. could have Dif flavors..
    [video=youtube_share;0IBzP35Wls4]http://youtu.be/0IBzP35Wls4[/video]
    The message in this vid do not nessasarly reflect my views or the views of this forum.
    I like the music.
    Sorry if it offends anyone not ment to. There is a stop button last time I checked.
     
  12. Sparticas

    Sparticas Member

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    Maybe something like this.
    [video=youtube_share;2OBhP6wPuvI]http://youtu.be/2OBhP6wPuvI[/video]
    Wobble included..
    HAHA PIMPIN!!!
     
  13. Xandra

    Xandra Active Member Pro Users

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    Hi,

    this is an interesting topic. Unfortunately it's not treated with sufficient seriousness.

    At first, the way the OP treats it is inappropriate, IMHO. Writing quite hard to read posts *), resorting to personal attacks when confronted with other opinions, this doesn't really help the cause. IMHO, again.

    Second, it's a misconception that the vehicles killed the sweat price. TP chips never was the main consumers of ME - it was the attack and healing chips that used up ME in much bigger amounts! A single afternoon at Nea's, MF-healing the sweaters, ate by far more ME then half a year of using my TP chip 2.
    It's the SynthME that performed the last strike against the Sweat Market. Not to forget the ones before, the removal of the sweat cap, and the long MF-less time after VU 10.

    I'm not sure, btw, if sweating shouldn't be scrapped altogether and better get replaced with other kinds of newbie-suitable "free activities". Sweating has been made boring beyond good and evil, it wasn't this way always. There was times when sweating actually required organized team work, back in the good old times. Today it isn't more then an ugly grind, making your eyes bleed, your brain going into hibernation, and your wrist slowly decaying - for such few PEDs that it just isn't worth it, because the resource you gather has just very limited use anymore.

    I think it's very important that new players have some way to be entertained for some "try-out time". And to make some small coin doing so - this helps to keep them. And we need them, urgently.
    I wrote a post a year ago about this, on PCF. Hope you can read it, else drop me a line. It's about the "free activities", and it'll show you my standing.

    It's not only the sweat price that hurts new players. Should they get enough sweat, and should they actually be able to sell it for an acceptable price, what follows? The hunting.
    And here they'll burn the results of days of sweating quite quickly, because the next problem is the way the loot is balanced meanwhile. Again a PFC post of me to illustrate the problem, this time even older: "State of the game - hunting".

    So, the problem is not only the price of sweat. The problem is the possibilities MA is offering to new participants, and not only to these but to more advanced fresh depositors too. It's not "free" against" "depositor", it's "fresh player" against "seasoned participant". Or "nOOb" against "Uber".

    Not much the Planet Partners can do about. This is balancing, done in MA HQ. So another question arises, wouldn't this topic much better suit an interplanetary forum like EP or EF? After all, it's not Arkadia specific, and the A-team wouldn't be able to do much to help?


    Back to topic:

    I'd strongly oppose the use of sweat as part of the fuel for all vehicles. This would be a major pain for the players that burn a lot of fuel, and would be unjust thus.

    I'd promote the additional use of sweat to slightly improve some existent mechanics, for instance in the creation of slightly better fuel, ammo, crafting results.

    I'd heavily promote the use of sweat in the beginner activities, so, for instance, any of the free tools from the learning missions could be sweat-powered. Including the gift vehicles. And there could be very basic BP's that only need sweat (and maybe other easy-to-get stuff) to produce basic components. This way we'd have the sweat in a parallel newbie economy ...

    I'd could imagine, too, to scrap sweating altogether, and to replace it with a more entertaining, more challenging and more profitable game mechanics, we've already read quite some creative proposals in this thread.
    I'd love to be able to hire a nice newbie to help me with my mining or hunting, I'd be easily able to provide sufficient gear - as long as I knew it couldn't just log out after I handed over the armor set, or the FAP, or whatever. The help of the newbie would rise my returns, and I wouldn't mind it to get all of this additional loot - after all the daily chore would be less boring, with a happy nOOb hopping around and doing stupid things ;-)



    All in all, don't forget, the sweat PED is money that comes from the depositing players. Atm there's no need to buy sweat at all, for me. I have insane amounts in storage already. When I buy sweat, it's an act of charity - nobody needs to buy sweat these days anymore ...

    There's a lot of room for improvement, but yelling "those vehicle owners should pay for my free play" is, IMHO, not the best idea ever.

    Have a good time!

    *) Edit: It's hard to read posts that are written without a single paragraph, and in a spelling that resembles an RNG. Hitting "return" after an idea has been finished, and using a spell checker isn't rocket science. Yes, it's a tiny little bit more of work, but I know some ppl will read it, and presenting it in a way that's not too hard to read is my way to show my respect to my readers.

    You're mileage might differ, you might call me a "grammar nazi", but: Do you really expect to be recognized as seriously if clearly showing that you don't give a rat's behind about your readers?
     
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  14. Ridan

    Ridan Active Member

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    On the first I would begg to differ. This is a great place untill now MA called al the shots without anyone really having a big say.
    Today with "PPs" I assume and hope they have a big say towards MA and the possibility to change alot of things in the long run. So if they are made aware and alot of ppl share these views they might just be the ones that helps MA reconsider and change things up abit. Or so atleast I hope :).

    Im one of thoose hitting the idea out to fast and sry if its bothering ya.
     
  15. KikkiJikki

    KikkiJikki Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    I don't see the problem with having the discussion here. OP actually posted in this forum, PCF and EntropiaForum (dunno about EP) so people can discuss it wherever they hang out.

    And some potential fixes are within the remit of the planet partners. New bps, vehicles, weapons are designed by PPs. I agree that only MA can make the change OP is proposing but that change was never gonna fly anyway.

    BTW Xandra, interesting point about the impact of synthetic sweat. I still think that was a positive change though. MF attack was too uneco before that change.
     
  16. Sparticas

    Sparticas Member

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    OK Fair is Fair. I agree with that. I'm looking at a point of view that if something is all ready coded into the system why not manipulate it where it works? It would Benefit to not waste work all ready done. The Growth from Sweating that EU has gotten is a proven fact. I'm sure. Or it would have been removed along time ago. Sure I'm down for getting rid of the sweating system all together I guess I would have to take the screw on my LVL 14 sync chip. sure. Why not nothing new for me. I never said I wanted anyone to pay for me to play. I DEPO! I HAVE A GOLD CARD! If i can't afford to play.. there are other games by other companies. SA' LA VI.. Have fun.
     
  17. Xandra

    Xandra Active Member Pro Users

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    Hi,


    Your post makes perfect sense and is easily understandable. No problems at all. Nobody counts single spelling mistakes but a few, and these you can usually ignore safely.
    Just for interest, for me it's common practice since years to have spell checkers in the browser, as add-ons for the all the languages I'm communicating in. Love these - best since sliced bread!
    Is there a reason not to use one?

    Don't know. To my knowledge the PP's have quite limited possibilities. As soon as it's about money MA kicks in and demands it to be done by themselves. Remember BP's? Any drop must be "balanced" by MA themselves, no way for a PP to quickly adjusting obviously wrong drop rates.

    About the "big say towards MA" - I can't help but to assume that quite some PP's are quite uncomfortable now, and are finding themselves in a situation they never thought of. They have invested serious money, they didn't get what the thought to get, and now they have the choice - attack the boat they're sailing on, or trying to make the best of the given possibilities. Drown in honesty, or survive while eating toads?

    I might be completely wrong, this are just estimates.

    Have a good time!
     
  18. Xandra

    Xandra Active Member Pro Users

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    Hi,

    In stand corrected, ashamed, and blushing. I didn't see, so anything I wrote about is pointless. Plz excuse.

    It was un-eco, but old time MF healing was great - you had quite a range for your chip. I blew up immense quantities of ME at Nea's - and no need to run all over the place for your "victim" every time. The old ranged MF healing was great!
    I agree that the old attack chips was crap, and that the new ones are much better.

    Yep. I just oppose the sheer idea of making all vehicle fuel made with additional sweat, this would IMHO heavily hurt a few of us (not me!) that are burning a lot of fuel today. Taxis, and such.
    While it seems like an easy solution (everyone and it's dog are using vehicles ...) it would most heavily hit the few brave souls that still do interplanetary trade, and this would rise the prices for interplanetary goods at all. Everywhere.

    Want a M2100 at Arkadia, as one of the still best finishers? Well, today it's quite cheap. You pay a little premium for the time the seller has spent at the Calypso TT to get one with good tier numbers, and a few PEC more for the flight costs. Rise the flight costs, you'll find it on your M2100 again ... Today I sell a custom selected M2100 for about 1.5K of sweat. Similar with Pixie/Goblin/Shogun armor, you get it for cheap.

    Rise the price of fuel, and thus for the space flight, you'll pay it back as soon as you want to buy something imported. This just doesn't make sense. Kill one bugger, feed another ...

    I fully agree with your idea that something has to be done to make the life of new try-out people less demanding, and more challenging, entertaining and funny. Just I think that the basic idea of this thread, using sweat as additional ingredient in fuel, will do any good. There must be batter ways, IMHO.

    Have fun!
     
  19. Sparticas

    Sparticas Member

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    By the way before you guys get to into my spelling or my Bad attitude.. Thank alzhiemers and being human..I have memory problems in wierd ways.. sorry.
    Could have been all the Drugs in my teens though.. looler ;)
    Oh hell who am I fooling I still would like to smoke the peace pipe..:huh:
    Just a bit off topic.. A Kewlness Skill would be better than coolness.
     
  20. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    Indeed, if this game was for 12 year olds.....
     

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