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Spartoline! Freeing the sweat slaves!

Discussion in 'Wishlist' started by Sparticas, Jun 27, 2012.

  1. Sparticas

    Sparticas Member

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    Why should anyone subsidise anyone? If there is a need By you for Sweat.. GO SWEAT IT YOURSELF!! You don't want to fine buy it.. Open up the market/FREE THE SLAVES!! let the market decide what it is worth!!! Not your over blow ego that makes you above sweating. Only reasons why anyone buys sweat on a consistant bases for most part is they like the person that has it for sale. I'm out where the sweaters are and thats some of there Excuse's,, I have a good buyer. Well yeah i bet your buyer has alot in stock as well.. Bet they like use it all also right? Get off your Horse!!
     
  2. KikkiJikki

    KikkiJikki Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    Trying very hard not to be rude here. Repeating slogans do not make them true.

    This is not about my ego. I spend a lot of time in the game and I already dont have enough time to do all the things I want. I'm really not interested in adding sweating to my list of activities cos its not something I enjoy at all. So yes if I need sweat for something I want to do (eg use my tp chip) I will buy it and I will pay market rate or perhaps buy off a friend at a little extra.

    The market is already deciding what sweat is worth. And people can choose whether or not to buy it depending on the activities they want to do. But adding it as a required component to something as ubiquitous as fuel forces everyone to buy it or spend hours obtaining it themselves. I don't like that you want to force everyone to buy in order to serve your agenda.

    By all means promote use of sweat in more bps or as fuel for a new vehicle or ammo for a new gun. Then I can choose whether or not to craft/buy those items and use them. I have no problem with that. But your suggestion is not something I can support.
     
  3. RexDameon

    RexDameon Active Member Pro Users

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    to be honest everyone is looking at this "problem" the wrong way.

    quite simply there should just be more to do for free in this game or nearly free. More story driven missions more platform type gameplay. I've always thought with Arkadia it be cool to have an underground that was like a maze and a mission to get through it and find things.

    What i'd really like to see are repeatable missions that require time and the reward is a L bp to make an item that you need to continue your mission... or not even an L. Rocktropia did have some pretty good free missions that took time and effort. I'd like to see more story driven missions where just going through the missions and learning more about the Arkadians was fun on it's own. Maybe you gota solve some puzzles or find some secret path ways, or talk to NPC's to get clues. I got plenty of ideas of how to make some great adventure missions that would be fun and very low cost.
     
  4. KMax

    KMax Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    Enhancing on my Sweat pistol idea. You know how some places give out those trainer items that do 1-2 pts of damage are a bit slow , etc. why not make a pistol that uses sweat to make some type of acid based attack for new players to use that does 1-2 pts of damage. Then the lower level players are sweating, using the sweat for hunting and participating in game play, not just sweating attempting to sell getting frustrated and quitting all because they feel they don't want to risk a fist time deposit before they see what the whole game is even about. The new player experience on Arkadia is awesome and the new players really enjoy it but it does only last a few hours before they are back down to sweating as only thing they feel they can do unless they deposit.

    1/2 of my disciples I took up quit after all their trainer weapons quit on them and they could not sell sweat for a reasonable amount to continue do hunting and mining. And I don't blame them really, sweat for 10 hours stand and sell sweat for 5 hours just to get enough ammo for 1 hour hunting and only getting maybe 70-90% back out of that ped, even with MU, cycling that return a few times and along with paying for decay they are back to sweating in less then 3 hours really does seem to be a fruitless cycle.

    Now give them a sweat powered weapon, they sweat for hour could give them enough to hunt for 10 or so minutes, they get some mats, can then either sell mats or go sweat some more to hunt more. The mats they get can be sold to pay for the decay on the sweat gun and make slow gain in ped amount to buy other things like better weapons, cloths etc. basically see that the game has more to it then months and months of sweating before you can actually participate in the game as a player. Really players would want to upgrade weapons anyways to hunt bigger things as the 1-2 dam weapons would only work on the smallest of mobs, but they would get involved and isn't that what all the new player type things are suppose to do and we could handle some of the sweating anger as well.

    This would make sweating less boring and tedious, get the new players more active in other aspects of the game off the get go, consume the sweat instead of just let it build up until some higher level player uses it. All with the goal to get a person more active and wanting to deposit into the game.

    Just a thought.
     
  5. Sparticas

    Sparticas Member

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    You know horse's do eat & There is a use for what comes out the other end. Well I bet your all about Taming and using mobs as steeds. Funny how Corperations only Give a shyt about there Bottom line well I guess everyone has a Agenda.

    Well I'm the Proud owner of 0 Stores 0 Stalls. I have a bottom line Agenda, Wonder who will get stuck with the bill? If you want to get rude feel free..I luv tha color neticut blunt. Sweat pistols 20 pace's? sounds like fun..You don't like my marketing Slogan Fine don't read it..I think your Horse needs some sweat tonik looking a lil sick.. maybe a vet could help. Yeah slum with us sweat inc. I LIKE IT! YO! I can see it now Fuel stations in space. On every corner in every 1 Bit tp town. Spartoline for tanks.. Oh hell yeah I hear there mahusive. Take one on horse to go please..Yeah the market is there. the sweat stocks and the price of sweat is there or real close. Better start saving I need gas money or your not getting in..
    [video=youtube_share;CSX77EKN8m0]http://youtu.be/CSX77EKN8m0[/video]
     
  6. KikkiJikki

    KikkiJikki Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    Well ok then.

    You don't know anything about me.

    Most of your diabtribe above makes little sense but it is clear there's no point trying to have a sensible discussion with you. Good luck with your asinine campaign.
     
  7. TheLovelyHope

    TheLovelyHope New Member

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    "The idea," of what we are discussing, is not by any means asinine or foolish. Its a rather reasonable one. Now, to say that it forces it to be used on all vehicles is sort of foolish, because that wasn't mentioned at all. The ideas that MA should come out with some sort of "New," bps for vehicles, that may require some sort of oil and sweat, is rather sweet! Its called improving, enhancing, or purposefully a EU scientific breakthrough and advancement. Whatever it is, vehicles that would use this new synthetic kind of oil, pistols, furniture it all helps and gives sweat a presence. There is just so much of it, should be more resourceful. I personally think that it broadens up the spectrum, and balances the needs of the avatar who chooses to gather sweat, or the avatars that choose other things to do.

    Gathering sweat can be sometimes boring, but don't knock it, it gets you skills too, like evades, anatomy, which are also important for the mentor-ship aspect of the game. That is unless, you subsidize your disciples with ammo, then gathering sweat is rather effective and a great social platform. I would rather encourage and join my disciples doing something like gathering sweat then just hang around the quarry and look stupefied. Just saying. Its called skilling.

    Finally, MA and the universe should just open up their minds, concentrate and give Sweat more of a Purpose.

    Cheers!
     
  8. KikkiJikki

    KikkiJikki Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    So here is the start of the orginal post:

    "SPARTOLINE FORMULA TO FREE THE SWEAT SLAVES ENMASS.
    O+S/R=F For all vehicles.
    Oil+Sweat in a Refiner=Fuel Should be put in all vehicles to put sweat buyers on the streets again."


    And I have already stated on several posts that I have no issue with new bps, new vehicles or weapons. But it appears that the idea you are supporting is not the one that Sparticus proposed.

    Yes I recommend that new players start with sweating as long as it doesnt ruin their enjoyment of the game. By all means focus on the skill gains and the social benefits. None of which requires forcing me and all other players to buy it to run our vehicle(s).

    Regards,
    KikkiJikki
     
  9. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    I've said before... new uses for sweat should be mutually beneficial not only for sweaters but for the users of sweat as well. Now, the idea of requiring vehicles to use sweat for fuel would not be beneficial to sweat users (it would increase their cost to play), but only to sweaters, so I don't like the OP idea. Same with the sweat gun (though that idea at least allows the newbies a chance to "play", and the loot pool drain might be made up for by retention of new players).

    There are many possibilities for mutually-beneficial uses of sweat. For instance, adding optional sweat to weapon crafting makes a weapon with higher TT value or a model with slightly higher dps, or you could add sweat to ammo directly and that would give you higher dps, or adding sweat to oil makes a fuel that increases your vehicle speed, or adding sweat to a fap improves healing in some way. These would have to be balanced out so that they're desirable functions, but not ones that directly pull more loot from the loot pool.

    The problem with the sweat market is not that sweat pays 2 ped per k.... I think 2-3 is an OK price actually, but the problem is that it's so difficult to sell sweat. Newbies all hear that they should go sweat first, but (at least to me) it's one of the most boring activities in game, and then we tell them to wait and wait shouting about their 3k sweat they want to sell... it's just not a good introduction to the game. So yes, if we're going to tell newbies to sweat, it should be something they can personally use or sell without too much trouble.

    Here's another idea for sweat: Mob Attractant
    I just came up with this one. Create a new mob-attractor tool (similar to the idea of decoys). Sweat forms the "ammo". You use the tool to drop a lump of stinking, pheromone rich mob-attractant. It stands for 10 minutes or so and agros all mobs within 150-200m radius. Need to grind small mobs? This makes it faster. Drop some attractant and then before the mobs mob you, run 50m away and start pulling the mobs off the pile one after another. It doesn't work as a decoy; mobs already agro'd on you will stay on you, so you still have the same basic defensive costs, and if you run close to the pile, they will all agro on you. You also can't pull mobs that are currently being hunted or sweated. Need to clear the area to dig out a claim since your favorite mining area is covered in riptors? No problem. Get in your vtol and drop a few well-placed attractors and this will clear the area for 10 minutes. Using sweat in this way would 1) be mutually-beneficial 2) not drain the loot pool 3) totally optional.
     
  10. Sparticas

    Sparticas Member

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    Let me clairify they are holding a part of the sweat market back or just cut it out all together since the invent of Vehicle's since the use of Tp chips fell through the floor ME use has as well.. The propoese sweat + Oil is just a way of rebalancing the lost sweat demand from that with the cause of some of the demand loss. I'm sure that will not bring back any of the demand loss from before then. so stock piles of sweat will be fairly much the same for long time to come. Now as Far as NEW BP's I have Issue with them because it puts the brunt of the demand responsabilty onto the Manufacturer instead of where it belongs and that is with the vehicles that cause such a large fall in demand. Hard to argue that.. Vehicle invent=Tp Chip not being used=ME not being used in same quantity=less demand because of vehicle.. just putting the use where it needs to go pretty simple.
     
  11. TheLovelyHope

    TheLovelyHope New Member

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  12. TheLovelyHope

    TheLovelyHope New Member

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    Ok, I am still supporting the idea that Sparticus is proposing.

    Why? Well, I don't think he is concerned with the vehicles of the past running on this rather new formula. If that was the case, I think we would have to make a huge vehicle recall, ROFL. Certainly his proposal, is referring to Entropia's future of vehicles, " New vehicles, that would require the use of this oil." Therefore, it doesn't obligate you or anyone to do as you please.

    Thank you for taking the time to reply, this is a very interesting subject and one that MA should take a look at. Its all a matter of change and innovation. I have read all the posts in this thread, and don't think anyone's ideas are foolish. They are ideas.

    Cheers again~
     
  13. KikkiJikki

    KikkiJikki Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    Certainly he is proposing that all vehicles be required to use the new fuel formula. I'll quote what he said once more:

    "Fuel Should be put in all vehicles to put sweat buyers on the streets again"

    And I believe his clarification post reinforces that original sentence.

    I've already explained why I don't support this proposal.

    Regards,
    KikkiJikki
     
  14. db123189

    db123189 Member

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    As much as it’s a nice idea you need to consider the negatives and positives.
    Sure making sweat part of fuel will “possibly” push prices higher (I’ve even had the idea myself), but that’s only beneficial to the sweater and not the depositor. You may retain players who will play for free and possibly even a future depositor, but in the present you’ll be increasing the cost to play and pushing away the current depositors (a fact that was identified in the recent surveys).

    You can’t make sweat something you have to use, but make it more optional where you’ll get added value in the form of maybe a quest. There’s more value in retaining a current depositor, then gambling it by possibly gaining a future depositor at the expense of losing a current depositor, if you get what I mean. The games survival is the first priority for the developers. The developers get value when the depositor deposits and gets value in return, and not be told they have more cost increases to maintain their gameplay.

    You should also consider the fact that there is just too much supply to cope with due to the build up of no proper solution and that more players will sweat if the price is higher, which in turn increases supply and decreases the price all over again. If that was the case you'll not only have the same sweat price, but also made it more expensive to play as a result, thus decreasing overall value. What I’d really like to see is a quest line or a lot of daily missions which is optional for players, (meaning it won’t be vital to other parts of the game whether you do it or not,) which require sweat along with other items. Even perhaps a new profession where you farm crops like fruit for the future taming profession, which sweat can become a ingredient to make it grow faster or something. Something that adds value to everyone, but certainly adding it to fuel for vehicles, as much as it's a nice idea does not add value on both sides, so it would not work out. It may work if for example it was an alternative fuel that made your vehicle faster, which in turn saves time and would add value to both sides.
     
  15. AlexSolo

    AlexSolo Member

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    Hello,

    I am not convinced of this at all because it's a win/lose solution from the start to the end.

    Why should vehicle users finance the gameplay of others?
    Where is the added value for vehicle users here?

    If the vehicles would have an option to tank an alternative fuel which gives really useful and reasonable functions on the vehicle side it would be another thing then for me. But the functions must be really useful and reasonable cause otherwise I will stay on normal oil and dont use any new vehicles.

    All other arguments here I consider as pure spread of dogmatisms to make someone believe it's a great idea.

    "EU scientific breakthrough and advancement" - ouch :(
    "Formula to free sweat slaves" - ouch :(

    Stop that please.

    Also please stop to put sweaters in some kind of "victim of the system" role. Cause they are not.

    The usual sweater seems to insist to sell his pure sweat constantly.
    But to get more used to take some risks and efforts in EU seems in terms of responsibility somehow difficult.

    If you need new ideas of what to do to increase your peds you can do taxi service or hire on a MS for a while. You will be surprised how many people you learn to know and someone always knows something thats going on.

    EU is dynamic. such is life.

    Greets,

    Solo
     
  16. KMax

    KMax Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    I have read this post idea before and I approve, interesting idea for sure. Be like hiding your scent when out hunting deer in real life (big arse help when bow hunting for sure) but this would also help attract the mobs to the area for hunting.
     
  17. Sparticas

    Sparticas Member

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    My question why should sweaters subsidez your vehicles? Because thats what is going on.. that is the market that took the hit the hardest.. then the ME maker.. That is what i did.. Mined Nexus and bought sweat and made ME. even That market is nothing like it was.
    Answer me that as a ME seller on the auction why should I finance your vehicles?
     
  18. Sparticas

    Sparticas Member

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    Look I'll call it common dungification of who is Subsidising what. if i want as long as it gets debate going and free's the sweat market that is being held hostage for what ever reason. because really there is no use to kill a PR tool that got the game going. because of some over infalted ego of who should and shouldn't have to sweat. Because Price has nothing to do with it. You can sweat for free just like anyone else. so that argument is just assinine and caste system like. shoo fly shoo..
     
  19. Sparticas

    Sparticas Member

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    OK here is my position.. 1 the increase in price of sweat for me as a ME maker helps me 0! I own no shops so don't have to subsides that at all out of my pocket or otherwise. However since Vehicles virtualy put me out of the buying sweat business for making ME they should be responsable for bringing back some demand. Price I could care less about really. As long as I can sweat it myself! .00001 or 25. a k.
     
  20. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    In no way do sweaters pay anyone to operate a vehicle. On the other hand, sweaters do contribute about 1/3 of the cost of operating a TP chip, but even if the chips ran on SME, TP chips would still cost at least 50% more than operating a vehicle. So it's no big surprise that more vehicles are used than TP chips. Not to mention TP chips don't drop anymore while vehicles are abundant and cheap. The economy changes, and you have to keep up with it or stagnate.

    I give a challenge to any who want to help the sweat economy... come up with creative ways that MA or a PP could implement new uses for sweat that benefit both sweaters and sweat users.
     

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