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Space: One Fish's Persective

Discussion in 'Space' started by Fishface, Jun 22, 2011.

  1. Fishface

    Fishface Adviser Arkadia Adviser

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    When I first read the release notes about Space, I have to admit, I was pretty upset. First and foremost, all of space is lootable PVP. OFC, this favors the ubers, the rich, and the high lvl societies that will camp every safe spot and wait for you to launch, then hunt you down with guns blazing. Then they will PM your girlfriend and send them pics of your lifeless body floating in deep space. After you die, you will revive on some lifeless rock with a TT terminal and a fishtank, waiting for some greedy pilot to come by and offer you a ride back to civilization for the low, low price of only 100 ped.

    Sound about right?

    Well, I went to space today (after much begging) and I have to admit.. I was wrong. Space ROCKS.

    For one thing, you spawn in a safe zone, so no problem there. After that, if you are flying out of the safe zone into lootable space, you can see the markers of any other ship nearby, so you know if they are camping you.

    But the main point is...well...Space is HUGE. They will never find you. You are the one who gets to choose when you will leave, what direction, and who is around you when you go.

    I'm not into PVP. I can understand that some people like it, but it's just not my game. My computer just sucks too bad to ever do it well here. But it doesnt matter. Even with my slow computer nobody could ever come close to me. It's just HUGE.

    What makes it so big is that it is 3d. You can fly up, down, sideways, loop, roll, etc. you have full control of the vehicle. I dont care if there is one person looking for you or 100. They would have to be at the same coords, at the same height as you. It's just not likely that you will be found. Ever.

    But then there is the issue of the costs involved. 1500 ped for a Limited Thruster?? That's insane. Nobody will pay that! (And that is literally what i said when I saw the prices on them)

    But again.. I was wrong.

    It's not a bad price, really. And I'll explain why.

    It is a 5 ped TT item. It decays each time you leave the atmosphere, and each time you re-enter. However, you can land at the space station for that planet and use the TP there to re-enter, for 7 ped TP fee. So actually it only decays once per trip.
    My understanding is that it decays 0.10, giving you 50 uses per thruster.

    OK, so 1500/50 = 30 ped, plus 7 ped TP fee to re-enter, + ~0.80 oil for the trip. Grand total: 37.80 per planet hop.

    If you have a hangar, you re-enter the atmosphere using your ship, then there is a 2 ped entry fee. grand total: 2(0.10)+0.80+2= 3 ped.

    This will be conducive to trading, it will give crafters a good loot to sell, it will actually be cheaper for you to go from planet to planet, and it is really, really cool looking flying through space.

    Space Pirates? Bah. You have more chance of dying from crashing on the side of the space station than you do of getting killed and looted in space.



    edit: Entropedia is now showing 49 total uses, not 50. so add 0.62 to cost of a one-way trip
     
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  2. Faye

    Faye Member Pro Users

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    I heard the thruster can be used twice ..... can somebody verify that?

    Besides i am not worried about PvP either .. it is huge hardly anyone there.

    but i am concerned that we on Arkadia dont have the crafters to get the fighter bp and let a lone get a mothership. Calypso space will be crowed. I would vote for motherships sales on arkadia (and other planet bound auctions) so we have a fighting chance. For now we have to wait for a " greedy" pilot to get us some thrusters. Thankfully some arkadian got into sapce and are getting the materials for us.
     
  3. MindStar9

    MindStar9 Deactivated User

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    Here's a different perspective ... space isn't even 24 hrs old yet (close, but not yet), and it's too soon to have a discussion as to how safe it will be for people to fly from Point A to Point B. There's a lot of exploring going on right now, and people trying to figure out how it all works, not to mention not too many blueprints available, and ... you may be able to afford the 1500 PED fee for a (L) thruster, but that is not a drop in the bucket for what I would venture to say is most people.

    Also, if you should need to repair the structural integrity for some reason or other, the equipment now requires welding wire to be added in order for you to use it, and ... the ingredients for welding wire are not all on one planet, which now makes it a requirement for somewhere in the process to make a trip to other planets to acquire them, or have a trader service assist you, unless it shows up in auction on the planet that you're on.

    I would say within a couple of weeks or so, we're going to see a whole different picture out in space, and then perhaps it would be a good time to revisit the discussion about how safe it would be to travel without incident. :)
     
  4. Stave Petty

    Stave Petty Member

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    I tried space too and personally I'd enjoy it more if, for example, there was a longer route that's not pvp, so its purely optional, and up to you if you go via a shorter route via lootable pvp.
     
  5. Faye

    Faye Member Pro Users

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    Thats true.

    I cant discuss how space will be as i cant get into a area. But what I can discuss is the BP drop from mindArk for the vehicles. I already saw the welding wires for example and those are L BP's. Same goes for thrusters those are also L. I hope the UL thruster will drop because then we can get crafters make them cheap.

    And now i am only talking about thrusters not even the fighters. If those thrusters BP's get working and thruster are avaible on every planet then we can visit and disucss space.

    For now ... I am off to hunt Oro again until things settle down
     
  6. Admin

    Admin Forum Administrator Staff Member PAF Administrator

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    *moved to Space forum*
     
  7. starfinder

    starfinder Member

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    MS.. have you even been to space yet?
    What if I told you space is like (Calypso + Arkadia) in 3D in size.. No green dots..

    What fish and I (on EF) are saying is not that "if it remains as populated as it is now - then it will be ok".
    We are saying.. If 1000 people were flying around trying to catch you... There would be no chance in hell they would find you.. or if they did, even get close enough to engage you.
    Imagine running from "a TP of your choice, to another TP of your choice" while I try to catch you - also running. Now, you have the option of starting at any TP you want, and going to any TP you want. I also have the choice of starting at any TP I want.

    Lets say you start at twinpeaks and decides to run to Jason.. Ohh damm.. I choose Nea's place TP..
    Dammit..
    Well.. lets try again..

    I start at Twinpeaks..
    You start at Jason runs towards Twinpeaks..
    Uhhh.. getting closer..

    But ohh my.. we pass each other by 300 meters - and I had no idea because there is no radar...

    Get the idea?
     
  8. Danton

    Danton Active Member Pro Users

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    Maybe Ul BPs will drop, maybe not. For Thrusters itself as UL, well.... don't think so.
    Following line out of email that hangar owners got yesterday:

    ====
    ....Your thruster will be of unlimited type which is very rare for these items.....
    ===
     
  9. MindStar9

    MindStar9 Deactivated User

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    I totally understand what you're saying Starfinder, and appreciate your perspective but there are other possibilities when it comes to strategy of those who want to play pirate and go after people in space in search of bounty.

    I don't think you can say with 100% certainty that there could be 1,000 people in space and if they were actively looking for people to PK that there's no chance in hell they would find them. Same with any PvP zone on the planets - it just takes a bit of time before you run into someone.

    And like I mentioned (in so many words) ... I don't think it's wise to underestimate the due diligence of PK'ers either, and when we do have more people in space, then it will absolutely make it easier for them. Some of them are already making their plans, and you know as well as I do that when it comes to PK'ing, it's a skill, and as more people enter space, the more pirating we're going to see - it's just inevitable, so I can't see where you can say that there's no way in hell they'll find us.

    MA didn't develop this system so that we could safely travel through space - the lootable PvP was absolutely intentional, with every possibility for it to happen. We just don't have enough people in space right now to hear about this type of experience, but I guarantee you that we will eventually.
     
  10. starfinder

    starfinder Member

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    Yes I agree. There is a chance that you might run into a PK'er.

    The difference is just that - so far - the majority of those who voice their opinion negatively about space and the pvp aspect of it are only speaking in terms of generalization.
    The IDEA of pvp space could be a bad idea, yes.
    Im merely saying - having see the size of it all - that it will be near impossible for someone to "run into you".
    If they do - then they need to get close enough to actually attack you - also something thats rather hard.

    As I see it, there is more or less only three tactics a PK'er can use in space:
    - Wait outside a safe zone for someone not looking at where (s)he is going.
    - Random fly around in space looking for ships to attack.
    - Know where a ship is heading - and anticipate where the other ship will enter the safe zone.

    The first two scenarios are only an option as long as the victim is not scanning space for other ships.
    The last scenario is a rather "lucky hit" if they find the target as you can enter a space station from "anywhere" (For obvious reasons you dont want to fly in a straight line from A to B).
     
  11. Faye

    Faye Member Pro Users

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    Srry I meant the UL Bp for thrusters =)
     
  12. Saoirse

    Saoirse Member

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    What you are missing here is the quad fighters are flying at almost dbl the speed of a Vtol....... AND the rage of some of the rockets is huge!
     
  13. starfinder

    starfinder Member

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    Yes, I agree - some ships are suited better for hunting down slow VTOLs.
    However, I feel that VTOLs are not exactly "space ships" but just a way MA has made space affordable for "everyone" to go to (in time).. If you want to be a merchant and make a living out of moving goods - then obviously you need the fastest ship there is.
    For someone like me who will just be moving a little between planets - VTOL's and the occasional death in space is fine.

    I say occasional because even tho Quad wings are faster than VTOLs - they still need to find you, which we have mentioned before - is at best very hard.

    :)
     
  14. Milesio

    Milesio Platinum Member Platinum Member

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    Perhaps someone ask a pilot about a trip paying the ticket. Then passenger send a friend (pirate) with private chat ship destination or coordinates they are. Ten pilot ship is attacked and looted. Perhaps can pilots publish a list with passengers giving bad luck in travels?
    :p
     
  15. starfinder

    starfinder Member

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    What would the pirate gain from that, other than decaying the pilot's ship?
    I doubt pilots will be transporting stackable items anymore....
     
  16. MG Mighty

    MG Mighty Member

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    I only see one and is none of that:

    Why they need to wait outside the safe zone ?

    When it's probably cheaper and safer to set an blockade from inside and persuit those who are unwise (unless they have a fully geared mothership) and try to force pass it?

    Information and team work will make a difference to what the pirates can achieve.
     
  17. billairboy

    billairboy Member

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    I have not been in space, but i believe of you have a small fast ship you should be pretty safe most of the time, because even if someone would find you it must be a hell for them to match the speed and the movement (in 3D) of a small spacecraft if you try to flee from the attacker.
     
  18. Billy

    Billy Member

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    I have been shuttling people from planet to planet in a quad wing and been to many planets many times and never have I seen another ship in the lootable zone not to mention that unless they have a quad wing to try to pk me then I would just leave them in the dust before they could even get a target on me 3D is the key.
     
  19. Lee DeLioncourt

    Lee DeLioncourt Arkadian Outrider Platinum Member

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    Thanks for your perspective Fish. From all I can see and hear so far, I tend to agree with both you and Starfinder on the subject. I personally have zero interest in pvp, but I can actually see the logic behind the scenario MA is creating here, and it is just the first step as well. Having played another well known 'space' game for many years, I have only managed to get taken out exactly once, and that was as a noob who was being very stupid, completely my own fault for not taking the time to find out how things worked before just jumping in like a hare brain. I personally think the space in Entropia is much the same, yes, you may bump into a pker, but then again, if you take the time to find out how it all works before leaping, it will be a very small risk really. If you aren't going to space for an ingame profession purpose, but more just want to see what's there or visit other planets for social only purposes, it may not be a risk you are willing to take, especially if you have enemies who are big pkers lol, but it is an option and I agree as well, they will have a hard time in finding that needle in the haystack.

    It does also make the trading profession an actual profession now, one that requires that more traders actually play the game now, if they want to find the profit they can now not get from just standing at auction or a trade town, and I think that is a good move. People who actually play the game is what we need more of right? I don't know, I just have the feeling the whole thing will evolve nicely over time and will give a totally new depth to the overall game, and I'm prepared to not condemn it right out of the starting gate as I feel many have based on the idea of lootable pvp without seeing more of the bigger picture. I don't see it as 'killing' new planets, maybe tougher going for awhile, but it is true that necessity is the mother of invention :)

    Looking forward to seeing how this all works out, and seeing each planet grow now (or not) on it's own legs. Looking forward to see the new ways to play this gives us ( a lot more incentive to work together, fleet building etc), and the next steps (space mobs, more bps and vehicles for all planets, space around planets perhaps handed over to PP to develop as it fits them etc). Surprized myself actually to find I am feeling more hopeful than ever about Entropia now, rather than the other way around, time will tell though ofc.
     
  20. Golddude

    Golddude Member

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    Thanks fish for sharing with us :)
     

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