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Skilling on Caraboks, L6 -> L23 : TT return, skilling curve

Discussion in 'Skills' started by endy, Dec 28, 2011.

  1. endy

    endy Active Member Pro Users

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    I did quite a few Carabok hunts and I want to share the results:

    View attachment 3128

    Each point along X axis is a 10 PED Opalo Carabok hunt. I gave Caraboks some time (5-10 secs) between shots to regen health and so to decrease overkill, plus give them a chance to bite me and give more skills.

    Under this conditions, each hunt takes about an hour. If you don't care and shoot them non stop, one 10 PED hunt will take around 40 mins.

    On the one hand, "new" Caraboks give you more skills, on the other I started from L6, not from L0, so I don't know how it evens out, but roughly, the whole exercise will take around 90-140 hours of game play.

    Considering the current Carabok skins MU around 250%, and their percentage in loot being around 12%, you will most likely profit, the worst scenario - break even.

    ------

    The change in Carabok's level from L2 to L10 dramatically changed the amount of skill gains from them.

    As you can see from the graph, the curves from L2 Caraboks and L10 Caraboks are not consistent, they are parts of two different curves (mob level dependent) that give you totally different amount of skills under all other circumstances being the same.

    This junction of the two graphs is in fact very important as it gives you an insight on how exactly the same mob just being assigned a different level, gives you totally different skill gains. The situation with Caraboks and their level change was quite unique, so hardly anyone else captured that in their data.

    ---------

    Some personal notes about Carabok hunting and loot, the way it worked for me:

    Normally you get a no-looter or a loot worth 1-9 pec.

    From time to time you will get a "micro-payoff" that is a loot higher than 24 pec.

    Sometimes this micro-payoff is set to be in the range 24-50 pec, sometimes 1-2 PED.

    There are no loot values in between 9 and 24 pec.

    After you get 2-3 micro-payoffs in one spawn, you better move to another spawn, there are 10 spawns all together, so the best way is to cover all of then while hunting.

    If you do a 10 PED Opalo hunt, that's 50 shots per spawn, if you don't get a micro-payoff after 50 shots, change the spawn.
     
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  2. Tancred

    Tancred Member

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    That is impressive, nice data !

    The skill curve looks normal (i.e. not linear, flattening) except for the big change between the "old" and "new" carabok. Did you change anything (hunting gear, hunting style, ???) between those two parts or is the carabok the only difference?

    Also, I do not understand your PED balance curve. What does it show? With your numbers for TT return %, % of carabok hides in loot and carabok hide MU you should have profited but that curve seems to be showing more or less the same as the TT return graph.

    /Tancred
     
  3. endy

    endy Active Member Pro Users

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    The only tangible difference between the old and the new Carabok is their increase in speed, that alone brought them from L2 to L10, making them a unique mob for skilling across the whole EU.

    No other Carabok related parameter or anything in my hunting setup was changed.

    PED curve shows absolute PED TT profit or loss from hunts, accumulated over time.
     
  4. Jenny ferr

    Jenny ferr Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    What is new and old Carabok? only thing changed is that they looted muscle oil and had awesome purple skin before and now they loot eye oil and have green(icky) hide. If or the speed is difference got no relevance as everyone who max the tt weapons can kill them before they reach you anyway
    and renaming from L2 to L10 changed nothing except that silly number, they were just as good skilling earlier.
    Please stop using the Lxx number a reference to something useful as there is clearly nothing useful about it
     
  5. endy

    endy Active Member Pro Users

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    Added the answer to the OP
     
  6. rick_janson

    rick_janson Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    I disagree. Increasing their speed alone automatically changed the number. The number was not changed manually. The fact is that it's there. I've said it before I'll say it again: We have no real idea what all it takes into account when determining the danger level. Though obviously speed, regen, health, etc play a part. It's actually quite useful in determining what type of mobs you're able to handle. Jori are 2-8, Carabok are 10, Feran are 8-10, Halix are 9-13, Oro are 13-21. Which actually makes sense. Oro Youngs are similar to Halix Stalkers, Carabok are similar to Halix Young/Mature as are the Feran. And Jori are super easy by comparison.

    As to not turn this into a big discussion on the Danger Level classification, the data is impressive, endy. Takes a lot of work to keep track of all of that.
     
  7. endy

    endy Active Member Pro Users

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    As far as I understand, every skill is a function like Y=k*log(X) + b, so your prof level is a sum of such functions with different skill specific k and b, multiplied by their skill-to-profession weights.

    Mob level seems to be there somewhere as another multiplier, probably like k = f(Level)
     
  8. rick_janson

    rick_janson Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    That much we do know, yes.. But exactly what contributes? Health? Agility? Strength? Speed? Range? Agro? What weights does each have?

    That's all I meant by "no real idea" :)
     
  9. endy

    endy Active Member Pro Users

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    Well, I didn't record skill gains separately, that would make it easier ofc, when I finish oceanic development, I'll try to disassemble this curves into separate log() skill curves, see if it works out, then probably derive a rough formula for a mob level.

    Maybe it's not automatically calculated though. Or not from visible parameters. If you scan Caraboks, you won't see any exceptional skills that would make them L10.
     
  10. rick_janson

    rick_janson Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    I wasn't meaning the skill gains at that point, really.. Just the Danger Level number. I'm sure most of those attributes do at least contribute, but I'm more inclined to believe it's internal attributes like actual speed, attacks/min, agro range and the like that can't really be measured by scanning. I also believe it's those internal attributes that determine things like muscle oil drops (based on what Dobson has said). Maybe even the type of damage for all I know.
     
  11. endy

    endy Active Member Pro Users

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    I agree with that, and as you can see from my data, a mob level definitely contributes to the amount of hunting skills you get from it.
     
  12. Laradon

    Laradon Member

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    I believe the L increases the finishing skill you get for mobs. As far as i know and what I read in an rly old patchnote several years ago, mobs give normal skills through shooting and finishing xp on mob kill. The finishing XP may be influenced by the Level of the mob, thats why you sometimes get this wall of green or several gains of sthg if you kill em.

    This does not explain the higher Evade and general defence gains yet. I can only guess, but i think the point here is their speed and the difference to other punys, that they have all 3 damage types instead of just 1 (according to entropedia). Also could be that the Evade and defence gain did not change at all with the L increase, finishing XP is only awarded to offensive skills. Maybe thats why theres some voices that think they are the same as ever.
     
  13. KaelMeuk

    KaelMeuk New Member

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    Interesting, is it easy to sell the hides with markup like that at Arkadia or would they need to be taken to Calypso for sale?

    Just trying to decide if it would be worth it to come from Calypso to Arkadia for skilling
     
  14. endy

    endy Active Member Pro Users

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    I sold all mine on the Auction while skilling without any problems, no need to go to Caly.

    The demand though appeared only a month later after adding Carabok BP to TT, before that it wasn't possible to sell.

    The more people figure this out though, the more MU drops down, so money-wise it's a quickly closing window of opportunity.
     
  15. endy

    endy Active Member Pro Users

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    Some personal notes about Carabok hunting and loot, the way it worked for me:

    Normally you get a no-looter or a loot worth 1-9 pec.

    From time to time you will get a "micro-payoff" that is a loot higher than 24 pec.

    Sometimes this micro-payoff is set to be in the range 24-50 pec, sometimes 1-2 PED.

    There are no loot values in between 9 and 24 pec.

    After you get 2-3 micro-payoffs in one spawn, you better move to another spawn, there are 10 spawns all together, so the best way is to cover all of then while hunting.

    If you do a 10 PED Opalo hunt, that's 50 shots per spawn, if you don't get a micro-payoff after 50 shots, change the spawn.
     
  16. zume

    zume Active Member Pro Users

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    And sometimes they actually pay off well.. my 296 ped HOF.. a friend of mine has gotten a global too, cant remember the value.. They DO pay off.. The more who hunts them, the merrier.. :)
     
  17. KaelMeuk

    KaelMeuk New Member

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    ah well, hope ill have better luck on them soon.. im about -16-17 PEDs after 60 peds of ammo :(
     
  18. zume

    zume Active Member Pro Users

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    Btw.. some ppl speak of decreased drop-rate on the Carabok hides.. Can anyone confirm if they have observed it too?? usually when hunting you get a tt value of hides corresponding to approx 1/9th of the ammo TT value spent..
     
  19. Fopsie

    Fopsie Active Member Pro Users

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    From my observations it goes up and down witch fits in with how MA discribes supply and demand being the driving factor of what you loot. So if there is a oversuply of hides we can expect to see a decrease in droprate of those hides.
     
  20. zume

    zume Active Member Pro Users

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    Maybe its because i havent hunted them since my HOF.. *rofl*
     

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