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Removal of names of priates from posts

Discussion in 'Space' started by KikkiJikki, Jun 28, 2011.

  1. AttacKat

    AttacKat Active Member

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    One mindset we always teaches new players in EVE Online - "If you cannot afford to lose it, DON'T fly it."

    You guys may not want to hear this, but the fact is very simple, be it pirates or knights, or whatever you want to label them as, both are the same under MA's rules ... both kind are PvP players ... If the intend is for Arkadia to be a PvP free planet, so be it. But MA clearly did not intend that to be the case in EU Space. So we need to learn and play as such when we head into space. It may sound harsh, but it is really as simple as that.

    The game allows for such, and we here in the forum should not IMHO ban any PvP player or blank their names, in any way or shape as long as it is a general discussion and not violate the rule as stated in 2d.

    jc
     
  2. isclay

    isclay Active Member

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    If someone is a Pirate and has the intent and forethought to kill and loot in space then they can damn well be named in this or any forum! If they are willing to kill for profit then they should be willing to take the consequence of being named, known, accounted for, targeted and avoided or boycotted.

    If you're a Pirate you should DAMN WELL OWN IT. Don't hide your face/name! Be LOUD and PROUD! It's not illegal after all.

    My 2 pecs.

    ~Isc~
     
  3. Suu Miles

    Suu Miles Member

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    As much as I would like pirates to be named I see difficulty that comes with it, people might switch sides easily and it's pretty hard to keep it all up to date.

    So... IF there would be a private group, all members would be part of the often mentioned Arkadian Fleet, and of course pirates would be discussed in this group... and since these entries could only be seen by the members and it is invite only... that can't do anyone any harm, right?
     
  4. Lee DeLioncourt

    Lee DeLioncourt Arkadian Outrider Platinum Member

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    Meiersos, as explained, I quoted the rule and the decision (at that time) of the mod group regarding that thread. It is safe to say we were a bit 'wobbly' on that one and yes, we need to discuss the whole pirate thing more now, and it's been stated we are doing that and will get back with a decision, constructive feedback helps of course in knowing where to go with this.

    On a personal note, acting as mod on parts of the other thread in no way means I am as a player a 'friend of the pirates', in fact I am the opposite, you won't ever see any of my ships with negative 'karma' on them :)

    This is an interesting point to consider Ace, as yes, it appears the ships retain the karma status, even when sold on to another player (have already heard now of someone buying a vtol and finding themselves with a pirate rating on it to start off) but not yet sure if it sticks to the avatar piloting or crew as well in some way. It also explains why the first time I ever went up to space, I had a ship near me with pirate status (big adrenaline rush before I checked the map to be sure I was in safe zone lol), a vtol, who then docked at the station with me, the two of them hopped out, and took out another vtol with a positive rating, and took off. Anyone seeing them coming out then would of course not have known they just left a ship as a pirate, wash, rinse, repeat? Lots of things to think about.

    Thank you, have done a bit before, but admittedly not in such a 'passionate' community as Entropia. Hopefully over time folks will come to see me as fair and accessible, and trying to do my best, as all of the mods/admins here are :)
     
  5. Jenny ferr

    Jenny ferr Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    Agree sounds like a good idea, and also require unedited screenshots

    The title most likely wont follow your avatar(at least not shown), as my vtol got some title the other day when I was a fapper on the planet and my friend entered the ship it somehow got a title. Think it was "notable" and no clue how or why as it wasn't the first time when he entered the ship got it lol

    -------------------------------------------------​
    Another aspect too, if I got guns on my ship up in space and I see someone who is on my KoS list(for some reason) I might have a go on them should I be labeled a pirate then if they report me?

    I mean, I kill someone once and then mind my own business the rest of the time or only defend myself from other people not on my small KoS list?

    PS. I dont care if you put me as a pirate because of it but it might be another thing to consider
    (not likely to ever see one of them and if I do very likely to get shot down myself lol)
     
  6. lokiscamaro

    lokiscamaro Member

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    /looks around/ ummm im a Pyrate......but ive never shot no-one.

    seems clear, the rule will have to be adjusted for this one....hope the mods and the A-team make the right choice.
     
  7. Billy

    Billy Member

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    haha that's funny finally your soc name comes to light. I know the Pyrates of Calypso and they are a good bunch of people.

    On the other hand I have flown people from place to place and sometimes when they get in my ship the title changes to disreputable witch means they have done some bad stuff that dose not mean I am a pirate. I will say this If I see someone in PVP it is better to loot then to be looted that is how I look at it, I fly with no hud so I can see better for other ships so if they are trying to talk to me I don't know it.
     
  8. Corey "Greyfox"

    Corey "Greyfox" Member

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    So wait I could go become a pirate and you guys couldn't rat me out? Well enough of searching for pirates to loot, I'll just hit the traders and pretend I'm not a pirate.

    Sarcasm of coarse.

    Hehe, good thing you didn't have one of those passengers when I bumped into you last night, our exchange might not have been as friendly :)
     
  9. Admin

    Admin Forum Administrator Staff Member PAF Administrator

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    Hi everyone

    I'd like to thank you for all your responses here and to reaffirm that the mods are looking into this. Some of the key considerations we need to look at are:
    1. Things are not always black and white
    2. If a player is a pirate one day, then a knight the next, then who, if anybody, maintains a list of pirates and knights. The last thing that we want is an unmanaged and out of date list of pirates. This information would be wrong, and the person's pirate status would be incorrectly conveyed to any reader of the thread.
    3. Nothing about piracy is illegal or against the EULA, nor is it an exploit. It's a well known fact that space is full PvP, and thus entering space is done so at the players own risk. So having a cry about being PK'd by someone and naming the person, accusing them of doing wrong is not a legitimate claim.
    4. What if the claims are completely unsubstantiated? We mods don't have the time to validate every accusation to confirm that a player is in fact a pirate.

    There are more things to consider, but this is just a heads up.

    Cheers
     
  10. MindStar9

    MindStar9 Deactivated User

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    Thanks for the heads up Niko, and all valid points made in support of having to make a decision about this.

    I wasn't aware that ships take on a title when certain people get into them, nor that you can buy a ship already with a title, but don't know that until you spawn it. That right there makes it an even harder decision as far as I'm concerned, because you don't know for sure if a person is a pirate or not until more of their activity is known.

    I also agree that people shouldn't start threads just to complain that they've been killed and looted in space. It's a feature, and if you go into space you're taking a risk.

    I think perhaps if someone were to create a thread just to tell their tale of space experiences in a way that makes it fun, even though they were PK'd and looted, and the thread doesn't become one of complaining or flaming the pirate who did the looting, then I see no harm in that.

    Otherwise, I can see where this could be a sticky situation for all the reasons that Niko mentioned, and perhaps it will just have to be dealt with in a case by case manner.

    I'm sure the Admins and Mods will figure it out. :)
     
  11. GeorgeSkywalker

    GeorgeSkywalker Banned

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    To my mind best to assume each person is both pirate and knight and have ratings for each. Hence a hall of fame for pirates and knights could be revealing. It would not be uncommon for one person to feature on both lists. Problem would be if they sold their vehicle and started over as it seems to be the vehicle is where karma is recorded (i might be wrong about that though).

    If vehicles were named we could then have hall of fame for them along with it's respective owner. That would seem to me to be the solution.
     
  12. Atlan Leticron

    Atlan Leticron Active Member

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    It seems that karma sticks to both player and vehicle.

    I talked to one person who bought a sleip and discovered it had a Rude tag on it.

    And I had a passenger who gave karma to my sleip.

    Regards,
    Ion
     
  13. AttacKat

    AttacKat Active Member

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    Anything that has to be done manually is not a good method. Status changes by the fight, so a manual list is outdated the day it is published.

    What is this about ships being tagged? This idea does not work and we are seeing that already with the same pilot swapping ships. So is this guy a pirate or not? You have no clue. The ship does not tell the pilot what actions to take against another pilot, the pilot is who controls the ship. All tagging and labeling should go against the avatar, not the ship.

    jc
     
  14. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    Another question about Karma... do you get karma when you attack a ship? disable it? or kill the pilot? In other words, when you're defending yourself against an attacker, should you only disable them?
     
  15. KikkiJikki

    KikkiJikki Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    Smart players will work around the ships karma issue as described. And if you buy in auction then you may not know that the ship comes with a rep.

    However "I was pkd by player X" or "Player x told me in chat that he pks and loots" are facts that do not change. I have no issue with there being a burden of proof like a screen shot.
     
  16. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    Further confusing the issue is there's nothing to differentiate between pirates (people who loot unwitting passersby) and people who play PvP (like team battles or such). If I'm understanding it right.
     
  17. invi

    invi Member

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    I vote for publish their names, especially considering we are on a planet whose economy currently relies on imports. As for people changing from pirate to knight, my bet is they'd change back to pirate damn quick for the right opportunity.
     
  18. isclay

    isclay Active Member

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    Once a Pirate ALWAYS a Pirate.
     
  19. Therred

    Therred Member

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    I seem to remember something in history about pirates carrying flags of all the nations so that they would not be considered a threat... then at the last moment they would host their skull and cross bones! Aaahar! Ye land lubbers! Come to take yer treasure, me have!

    Then again maybe that was me daydreaming...:shrug:
     
  20. strangelove

    strangelove Member

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    In a lot of cases, you are dealing with shades of grey. Many "pirates" were actually known as privateers and were given a charter by a sovereign, say the king of England, which meant they could plunder French and Spanish ships at will provided the king got his cut. Usually England was at war with Spain and France when this happened. When the war ended, a lot of times, the English would just string them up like any other pirates because they had served their purpose. Some privateers used "piracy" as a means to build capital so they could go legit....like the Kennedy's did running booze during Prohibition. Some pirates actually did "go outlaw" meaning they plundered anyone they could get their hands on but usually they like to operate under some fig leaf of cover. That meant they had some safe harbors they could visit.

    I am not sure if any of them actually used the skull and cross bones or if it was a Hollywood invention. A few of the "pirates" may have but I can't remember off the top of my head. Why paint a target on yourself? They were loved as much as they are in EU.

    It was all about the cash...just like ppl operating in space here in EU.
     

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