1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Removal of names of priates from posts

Discussion in 'Space' started by KikkiJikki, Jun 28, 2011.

  1. KikkiJikki

    KikkiJikki Well-Known Member Pro Users

    Messages:
    3,324
    Likes Received:
    440
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I noticed in at least one post that the names of people who have looted others in space have been edited out by forum moderator citing rule 2d which is basically a rule against personal disputes.

    Accepting that moderators get to make judgement calls, I nevertheless want to argue against removal of names of pirates.

    Firstly I dont think its a personal attack or start of a dispute to claim someone has killed and looted you. It's not the same as accusing someone of scamming or exploiting because looting in lootable PVP is clearly not against forum rules.

    It seems to me that MA actually intend that those who choose to act as pirates or as white knights gain an associated reputation. We can see they have implemented a karma system to show the reputation of ships to participate on either side of the fence. Allowing us to name those that have pirated or rescued here in the forum, is within the spirit of that intention.

    Having the reputation of being a pirate isnt necessarily a bad thing either. Some people think it is a cool fun part of the game. And if you go into lootable pvp with stackables, you takes your chances. I can understand that although I don't really agree.

    Personally I really want to know who is pirating and who is combating piracy so I can choose who to buy from, who to fly with. I had a discussion in game with one guy offering to fly folks then say he had killed and looted people in space. I guess I wont be flying with him. If allowed I would publish that name here in forum.

    So I ask the moderators to please rethink this policy, perhaps have a discussion amongst yourselves. I understand we all need to be civil and not get into disputes but if people are going to play the piracy game they should have to live with the reputation impact and there really isnt anywhere apart from the forums for that to play out.

    Regards,
    KikkiJikki
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Atlan Leticron

    Atlan Leticron Active Member

    Messages:
    475
    Likes Received:
    63
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Honestly I agree with you wholehearted on this matter.

    If people choose to become a pirate, than it's all whiting the game rules and ethics.
    MA even created a pirate space base for them to choose as home.
    It is for them a chosen profession like any other as trader, pilot, crafter etc.
    And we are allowed to name people in other professions, so I don't see why not with pirates.

    If they don't like it because in some way it causes a bad reputation, than simply don't be a pirate.
    It is not like it is forced upon you like space pvp, it is a choice.

    Although I don't want to see such threads turned into a flame fest or dung slinging contest.
    We already have the Calypso forum for that.
    Such things simply don't fit into the Arkadia mentality.

    My dos peccos.

    Regards,
    Ion
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Fopsie

    Fopsie Active Member Pro Users

    Messages:
    772
    Likes Received:
    42
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I also agree.

    They willingly choose to take the path of bad Karma and currently bad Karma is basicaly the only risk Pirates have. The Moderators not allowing their names to be posted on the forum basicaly makes their risk obsolite and leaves the non pirates with the only risk.

    So please Mods reconsider this notion of mittigating the risk of pirates and allow us to post their names on the forum so we can know who to trust and support and who to leave alone. I understand that false claims can be a problem but perhaps you can setup a procedure to ensure false claims can not be inserted by requiring proof in the form of a screenshot when submitting the name to the list of pirates.

    Currently I know of one unofficial and uncensored site (sent to me via PM www.NewsFromUniverse.com) that is building up a pirate and pirate informer list and one that is currently in development.
     
  4. slither

    slither Active Member

    Messages:
    386
    Likes Received:
    42
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I totaly agree that names should be shown, i'll just repost what I said in other thread :)

     
  5. Danton

    Danton Active Member Pro Users

    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Yepp, agreed also. Only such comments should be deleted in which pirates are named togheter with bad words or flaming. Simply telling like "XYZ is acting as pirat, ship has bad rep, take care when you meet him/her", should be allowed.
     
  6. Faye

    Faye Member Pro Users

    Messages:
    297
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Whar happends if the pirate goes good agian. His name is still ln forums then. I support the mods in this. The rel system builtin sahs enough
     
  7. Atlan Leticron

    Atlan Leticron Active Member

    Messages:
    475
    Likes Received:
    63
    Trophy Points:
    28
    He made that choice on his/her own, so it's also up to him/her to get it right again.

    PKers on the caly forum also gain a bad rep and they like that, it's there choice.
    I remember one famous PKer who suddenly had a chance of heart and started in helping newbie's to get a good rep again.
    Last news is that he is back on his old level.

    But simply, they want it and they choose for it, let them bare the good things and the bad things that comes with it.
    It is there own choice.

    So naming should be allowed just as every other profession.

    Regards,
    Ion
     
  8. Fopsie

    Fopsie Active Member Pro Users

    Messages:
    772
    Likes Received:
    42
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Well then he will have to do everything in his power to prove that he has changed and moved over to the non pirate side so his name can be removed or marked as reformed. If he then gos over to the Pirate side again something can be put next to his name and cant be removed after that. I would much rather see a list like this on a moderated formum then seeing it on unmoderated forums where no proof is provided.
     
  9. red

    red Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    8
    I fail to see how mentioning that so and so killed me is a personal dispute. it's hardly tarnishing the reputation of someone who chose that particular path.

    if I say I see someone in a pvp zone frequently at a particular time, will this be so edited as a "personal dispute"?

    I support editing of names when it's obvious there is a campaign to slur their reputation through shaky facts and hearsay. however, reporting on a legitimate action in a polite non-insulting way shouldn't afford protection to anyone.
     
  10. AttacKat

    AttacKat Active Member

    Messages:
    387
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Then in such case, the whole thread should be deleted and notice send to the OP asking him/her to take this off-line with the parties involved.

    Mods may need to ease up a bit on this forum.

    jc
     
  11. Snape

    Snape Master of the BanHammer Staff Member PAF Administrator

    Messages:
    4,230
    Likes Received:
    372
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Guys we understand some of the feelings presented here and as such the Mods will be discussing it with Dave and Cyrus to get a clear direction on it. Space presents us all with a new set of challenges regarding this sort of "play". Please be patient and we will get back to you on this.

    As a side note, if people want to openly declare themselves to be Pirates then i have no issue of them starting a thread to list themselves so the community at large know who they are.

    Till we've got some solid idea of where to go on this please refrain from naming anyone for the time being.

    Thanks in advance
     
  12. GeorgeSkywalker

    GeorgeSkywalker Banned

    Messages:
    245
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    0
    There is another angle to all this. Some players may have dual roles sometimes pirates and sometimes knights. The gameplay seems to allow for this for example they could have one ship which they use for pirating. That ship will hence show pirate rating. They may have another ship for doing good deeds and that ship will show good rating. Depending on which ship they are in and rating you should be able to tell what their intentions are at that time.

    Not sure if good and bad ratings are also stored on the avatar apart from ships. In future I reckon it may become necessary on some planets to have a particular rating in good or bad side to unlock certain missions etc. That depends on PP's and how they make use of space and it's features.
     
  13. KikkiJikki

    KikkiJikki Well-Known Member Pro Users

    Messages:
    3,324
    Likes Received:
    440
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Thanks for the response Snape. I look forward to hearing the outcome of your deliberations.

    Regards,
    KikkiJikki
     
  14. Lee DeLioncourt

    Lee DeLioncourt Arkadian Outrider Platinum Member

    Messages:
    1,493
    Likes Received:
    122
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I am actually appreciative of this thread and hearing others thoughts on the subject. As the mod who did the name editing on that other thread in the end, I was concerned whether it was the thing to do or not, and did not want to make such a call on my own, so of course put it to discussion with the others and a decision was reached that we then acted on. One thing you can be assured of is that we are trying to work together and sort out the best and fairest way to handle this whole 'pirate' situation for the future, and I am happy to hear Snape say we will now get feedback from Cyrus and Dave to help us with that. Sometimes it's easy and clear cut what action is needed, other times it isn't so clear and we have to work together to decide that. I believe we have one very good group of admins/mods on here, and ask that you be patient with us while this forum is growing so fast and we have to sort out a few questions like this at times :)
     
  15. Fopsie

    Fopsie Active Member Pro Users

    Messages:
    772
    Likes Received:
    42
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Thanks Mods for taking this into concideration.

    Just as a note when you guys discuss this concider having some checks inplace to ensure that the information regarding the pirate is true (for example screenshots) if you decide to allow this.

    Having a way to ensure the information is true will limit if not completely stop abuse of such a system.
     
  16. aj502

    aj502 Active Member Pro Users

    Messages:
    410
    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Well I jumped the gun in the other thread before i read this one, and the moderator replies - so my bad.
    I'll still leave my post unedited as it is pretty cut and dry imo.




    Tippin'
     
  17. Meiersos

    Meiersos New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    A friend of the Pirates has spoken

    So you mention Rule 2d as reason for removing the names.

    It was clearly no Personal Issues involved for what the above rule was created. I just can speak fopr myselve but if you uphold such rules I certainly have to find another place and if this is also like Planet Arkadia will be ruled I certainly never will go there.
    Waiting for the solution to decide if it is worth going to a planet with the "same" kind of management like Calypso.
     
  18. GeorgeSkywalker

    GeorgeSkywalker Banned

    Messages:
    245
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Perhaps it would be wise to have a forum league table/section for good and bad guys in space. I'm thinking where people themselves can post their achievements. So for pirating most kills etc I think may be recorded on their avatar or ship? So they just post that or someone scans them and post. So we would know who is the best pirate and best knight...

    From this we would easily be able to tell who stands where and would then make it easier to talk on forums.
    Just sharing some thoughts...
     
  19. MindStar9

    MindStar9 Deactivated User

    Messages:
    518
    Likes Received:
    53
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I just wanted to weigh in on this myself after reading everyone's posts, and I happen to agree with the above.

    I can absolutely see a rule for no naming when it comes to scamming, or if someone comes here with a real personal dispute and wants to start a thread with content that drags the community into it to become judge and jury, but ...

    I saw no personal dispute in the thread in question, but rather someone saying that he got caught in space and was looted, but also hoped that the looter would have a change of heart and return at least half if I remember the post correctly. He didn't bad-mouth him, he wasn't rude in any way, and just listed the person who did the looting.

    Unlike scamming, lootable PvP is a valid feature of the game, and with pirating now being a part of space, you're going to have people doing the looting telling their stories as much as people being looted.

    I say, even if someone were to come here to create a thread in a tone indicative of a personal dispute and names the other person, I would just close the thread as that would clearly violate a forum rule. However, I see no reason to remove names of pirates since it's a true feature of the game, and looting in PvP would be a fact, not a he said/she said situation where stories are sketchy.

    Lootable PvP is lootable PvP, there's no gray area about it - you either got looted or you didn't, and if someone wants to come here and admit that they risked going into space and got looted, then that's their choice - I would venture to say that some wouldn't want to do that - especially based on how much they were looted for, but naming the person who did the looting shouldn't be an issue - only if the thread turned into a real personal dispute - then yes, shut down the thread in violation of the rule, but names shouldn't be removed.

    On another note - I can absolutely appreciate the difficulties of moderating, as I did it for over a year at EF, and while the majority of any decisions were discussed behind the scenes before any actions were taken on questionable situations, it's still not easy at times.

    I'm glad that Dave and Cyrus will weigh in on this as well and give us their final decision.

    Welcome to moderating Lee, I think you're doing a good job.
     
  20. Dan59

    Dan59 Active Member

    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    42
    Trophy Points:
    28
    "pirate goes good"?
    You mean he give back all financial damage he did and he refund and pay for time lost to all victims ?
     

Share This Page