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Read sleep on it then respond.

Discussion in 'PvP' started by PostHistory, Oct 31, 2017.

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  1. PostHistory

    PostHistory Member

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  2. San

    San Active Member

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  3. PostHistory

    PostHistory Member

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    There is no pattern to be found, things like this in PVP happen near on a daily basis, Sorry there is a pattern,,,, PVP.
     
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  4. San

    San Active Member

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    If there was an icon for 'hypocrite'... :D
     
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  5. Suza

    Suza Member

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    Actually there IS a pattern to be found, when a crewmate on your ship is not, to use your own words, "in the sin bin", they are quite often harassing people verbally and the incident I mentioned was not an isolated incident for members of your crew. This is the second time your ship has been used with the direct intention of preventing skilling for another ship in a fairly short period of time. Also add in the fact that your ship not only followed said ship throughout 2 different training grounds over the course of several hours shooting every mob they approached, the picture becomes even clearer. I'm guessing you told them to stop after following the ship over 1/2 way to a third training ground as that would paint an even clearer picture of intent and you have a better head on your shoulders than they do. I personally would have no problem with you if it weren't for the people you allow to abuse your ship. I actually had respect for you as a player once, but after seeing the people you associate with, that respect has rapidly faded.

    Maybe you just need to have a tighter reign on the people you allow to use (abuse?) your property to perform actions that can easily be called harassment or griefing. I'd hate to see you have to pay for the actions of others...

    "Space is a PVP zone, when people enter into combat and lose they have nothing to complain about". Paraphrased I'm sure but that is your main point in all this, but attacking unarmed ships is hardly combat nor can it be considered PVP, it's more like shooting fish in a barrel. Personally, I find that cowardly. That's why they call it PIRACY and is frowned on, because it's not PVP. it's forcibly taking something from someone who has no possible chance to fight back. But cowards prefer shooting people in the back because they know that's the only way they can win.

    Oh, but "you could have shot us out of the sky, as we were in a PVP environment." Knowing your crewmates, they had video recordings going on and were hoping for such a thing to happen to "show the piracy of XXX's ship and crew". Heavily edited of course, like certain others out there. Sorry, but I am not going to waste my hard earned money on your crew when I can simply take screenshots of everything they say and do and submit it to MA as proof of their direct intent to prevent other players in the game from their gameplay. A direct violation of the TOS.

    One other note... I like how you insist that logging out during warping is an exploit, but your socmates have no problem using the logout to die and return to SS and call it a game mechanic. Apparently it's an exploit when used against your socmates, but it's a game mechanic when used by them...
     
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  6. happy_hipster

    happy_hipster Active Member

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    I am better for the experience. That being said, it was a poor way to improve my game! I'm sure the pirates in question were not trying to make friends. I think it was appropriate that, after my recent posts about securing a Space Station, this happens. No, not appropriate, but perfect! The pirates in question have been unusually quiet after this incident. Possibly off spending all that ped they were paid to grief our crew. Posthistory is their only defense, really, and I commend him for at least trying to stand in front of this charging bull. Hows your armor holding up, Post?

    In all, it is a game, and I had an assload of fun, and tripled my money. Thanks to all involved. It was an honor to pilot through the denial of service attack.

    hip
     
  7. PostHistory

    PostHistory Member

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    To enter battle with out a weapon is a choice you make.
    Once again this game is full of choices... your welcome to fight back or be passive and die with out a fight...
    Anyone entering any PVP zone is expected to be fair game... Weapon or no weapon.
    Its PVP expect to be shot at, expect to be provoked to shoot back, don't have the stomach for it? get out.
     
  8. PostHistory

    PostHistory Member

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    With over 10 years in this game as a PVP player with out a single ban or warning... I like to think I play within the rules well.

    My armour is just fine, My skin is as thick as it comes... or as my wife would say My skin is almost as thick as my Skull.

    Truth be told I too want to see an improvement to the space system, I know my whole Society does. Rather than talking about events lets use this thread to add Ideas. there is a good thread to discuss the latest event here.

    http://arkadiaforum.com/threads/pirates-target-repair-skillers-in-denial-of-service-attack.14386
     
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  9. Suza

    Suza Member

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    You remind me of another game I played where the whole map was PVP except for inside the beginner city. You could not be looted, but you had all these max level PVPers who would sit outside the city and kill the new players over and over again. Sadly, this game has people with the same mentality... they sit at the space stations and wait for someone to venture out of the 'safe zone' to be griefed. Just yesterday two of your socmates jumped me and killed me and one of them tauntingly PM'd me. I simply replied "Hello and thanks for the skills" since it cost them several ped to destroy my ship and I of course was carrying nothing and it only cost me a small amount of welding wire and I gained even more skills. Personally I will continue to cause your socmates to toss their peds into the wind as often as I can because I enjoy the skill gains and since my ship is UL I lose nothing by it being destroyed over and over. I will even go out of my way to thank them every time. They spent at least 12.8 ped to kill me (didn't count misses) and it cost me .2432 ped in welding wire and I had 9 skillups. I find that an outstanding tradeoff.

    Advocating an unfair advantage is fair is why space PIRACY is met with such negativity and you are blinding yourself to this fact which, as smart as you are, I am flat out amazed you have been unable to see it. Attacking unarmed players is in reality a form of griefing like the other game example I used above, but you hide behind the statement "well it is PVP, you didn't have to go there". I didn't "have to leave the city" in the other game either, but there like here I would miss out on a huge portion of the game by doing so. Your response is what I would expect from a coward and a bully.

    Just the other day one of your socmates killed someone over and over and over coming out of Caly space station and when they finally got upset enough to comment in space travel "Im reporting you if you shoot me down again" they were met with the response "this is pvp nothing they will do to help you". One of the planet partners even chimed in... "[Monria Fleet Manager] shooting someone down in PvP is one thing ... continuing to harass them is against the EULA or ToS". Amusingly your socmate then replied "killing someone over and over is not harassment its pvp"... How sad they cannot see the truth when it is spelled out for them...

    "With over 10 years in this game as a PVP player with out a single ban or warning... I like to think I play within the rules well."

    Translation: "I've not gotten caught breaking the rules as yet" But can your crewmates and socmates say the same thing?
     
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    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
  10. Heidi Stassinopolis

    Heidi Stassinopolis Active Member

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    I see this and reminded of the scene from full metal jacket where private pile is found with his footlocker unlocked.

    "If it weren't for D******** like you there wouldn't be any thievery in this world" is the quote I believe.....
     
  11. PostHistory

    PostHistory Member

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    So why the whining if your benefiting from our activities?


    You are warned... as in OP image, ENTER SPACE IS TO ENTER PVP... bring your [Mr Huggy] toy to a gun fight if you wish but you will still be gunned down...


    No translation needed as I am sure I have been reported numerous times, and obviously found to be with in the rules.

    Technically my Society mate is correct, But as I have stated in my 2nd post to this thread... I do not condone this kind of activity.
     
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  12. Suza

    Suza Member

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    First let me refer back to this (You may want to correct that atrocious phrasing...):
    I'm not whining, you wanted to know *WHY* people get so worked up over space PVP vs planet PVP and I am *INFORMING* you as to the main reasons why. You though refuse to accept the reasons that the majority of people I have talked to express and fall back onto the old "it's PVP. deal with it" routine. Even though you are requesting information, you are refusing to *LISTEN* to the information presented.

    Did you hear me cry when your ship shot us down and I grabbed the wrong quad out of storage and had loot? No, you did not, because I accepted the fact that I made a mistake, one that I have not repeated since. THAT is why *I* welcome your socmates wasting their money as I check at least 3 times before I go into space to ensure I am not carry anything. It's impossible to grief someone who considers this a game and I get far too much enjoyment 'griefing' your socmates by thanking them for their waste of peds.

    To emphasize my point, when your one socmate followed us a while back, ramming us repeatedly and shooting our mobs, I said nothing to the crew as I was giggling over their pathetic attempts. Telegraphing their moves the way they were, I'd watch them fly towards me and then hit full reverse and watch them fly in front of me as I turned and picked up new mobs while they scrambled to turn around and try again. One of the crew jumped into the seat much later and decided to destroy your ship and leave the crew floating in space which for some unknown reason upset them greatly considering the profanity launched at us for not looting them. <shrug> They failed to fully repair your ship and came at us a second time and the same crewman shot them down again and left them floating. They then waited at the SS and shot us down as we came in with a load of mobs to turret and I thanked them for the skills. Apparently liking this approach (or upset over me thanking them), they again waited for us to come back in from a run, only this time I came in with over 50% of the SI remaining and overran your ship and let the mob ball take it out. Final score, Varyag 2, XXXI 1, Mob Ball 1.

    I even got a bigger giggle a few days later when said crewman decided to pvp Kronan and they ran for the SS, getting to safety 1 or 2 shots shy of destruction. I politely went and picked up their dry mobs and headed in to the SS to turret them and repair. When I headed back out I started getting rammed over and over and over, but as they were not firing on me or the mobs, I'd just turn around and fly past them and reacquire the mob ball and continued skilling. I almost thought your socmate was flying for them as they were telegraphing their moves in the same way and I again would hit reverse and watch them fly by. This kept up for over two hours and I have to admit I was having even more fun than I did with your crew. I had something like 10 people repairing, and whenever I needed bigger damage I'd turn around and run into the mob ball they pulled off me and sit for a while. I think it was around the 2 hour mark that they got frustrated and started shooting at us, so I'd just accelerate away from the mob ball and wait as they could not overcome the repairers and when they stopped I'd go back to the ball. They actually accused me of leaving dry mobs after pulling them off me and then chasing me full speed and losing them as I looked for more. I merely asked why they pulled them off me so many times if they were just going to dump them and blame me for it... <shrug> They finally gave up (I'm guessing because it was close to their scheduled warp time) and I picked up all the dry ones I could find and headed to the SS. They were waiting for me and shot me down and left me floating and I thanked them for the skills. This seemed to upset them as they launched into a long tirade about piracy and posted a dozen or more links. Sadly, they did not go pick up and turret the dry mobs like I did for them. <shrug> But hey, I had a great time and got a tremendous laugh out of it and tried my best to get the dry mobs I could find.

    The point of the above? There *IS* a difference between PVP and PIRACY. PVP in space involves ship battles, PIRACY involves looting. There is no reason to carry loot INTO a planetary PVP zone, so it's generally only the people who feel they are big enough to fight off attackers that go into them to mine and/or kill mobs. Space is an entirely different matter. No one wants to throw peds away selling their items on one planet below MU in order to fly through space carrying nothing in order to spend MU or higher to reacquire the same items in order to craft or whatever. You can rationalize it all you want "It's PVP and they take their chances" "They were warned" "It's not against the TOS". It's still PIRACY.

    I just have a few questions for you... If someone were to hit you over the head outside your home and robbed you would you be upset? I know you would, but why? You have no compunction about stealing in the game 'because it's part of the game', so why is other stealing wrong? It all boils down to the same thing.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
  13. San

    San Active Member

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    I was falling for it, too, yet again. They don't want to know anything, their cup is already full. Somewhat funny is only how they keep trying to spray everyone with the brown matter and always end up with all of it on themselves. They must like it.
     
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  14. PostHistory

    PostHistory Member

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    I would have put a Like on your post but I cant due to these last two points... I can't...


    The reason its called Piracy over Pk'ing (Land based) is it requires a ship. Nothing to do with the fact someone is stolen from. Some people may think they have been stolen from, but if they were in a lootable PVP zone then I cannot agree with them. Loot is to recoup costs of the battle... Why would you enter battle "Waste" (Your words not mine) all those PED's and then not collect the reward for victory?

    As for "Throwing your money away selling items on one planet below MU in order to fly through space......... to then spend more at another planet...."
    Can I say if that's what's happening your not playing the game well... also seems like your after instant gratification, this game is not really setup in a way to give instant gratification... unless you spend stupid amounts on silly clicks... then it may take a few hours :)

    Suza not sure where you live but where I live its against the Law, further more if I felt I lived in an area that would increase the risk of such an event I would move and yes I would be upset and yes I would report it to the authorities because its against the Law and also it would have happened in REAL LIFE, this is a game just like any other game some win some loose.

    Suza if your rational is like so I am seriously glad you are only "Good" in game because I would be concerned for your REAL LIFE self. This is illogical and not rational at all.


    The rest of your post was agreeable though.

    Thanks for pulling me up on my dig about calling you a whiner when you were mealy trying to explain to me a view you have, I think the problem was I miss read how you put it to text, and I should have taken my Own advice and read and sleep on it :)
     
  15. PostHistory

    PostHistory Member

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    Indeed your right that is atrocious phrasing :D... lets leave it so all can see sometime I am bad with my words :)
     
  16. Suza

    Suza Member

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    No, it's called piracy because that is what it is. You keep dodging the fact that there is ***absolutely*** no reason for a new person to wander into a red zone on a planet. I've not tested it recently, but unless they have changed it, you used to die instantly trying to enter a red zone unless you inoculated yourself to go in. Pretty big deterrent into venturing into a place where you can lose everything you get from mining or hunting. Space has no similar deterrent to it, period.

    The sad part of our lives online is that any place we go we are often bombarded by popup messages that people either cancel or unwisely click OK without reading them. People get so into the habit of clicking ok to anything that pops up on their screen that they no longer read it and in real life like in this game, there are people out to take advantage of that lapse to take whatever money they can from them.

    I gave you that real world scenario in order to test *your* ethics. Obviously you feel it is wrong to steal in real life, so the fact that you have no compunction about stealing in game tells me that *YOU* are the one that I would fear living near. It tells me that if you found a way to legally rob someone in real life you would and that is a very disturbing thought. You remind me of the time I signed up for a free 3 day trial, checked it out and cancelled it, only to be billed because written in the 4pt text at the bottom of the page it clearly tells you that by taking this 3 day trial you are also signed up for another trial on another site that you would get no email or other warning about having joined so they could "legally steal" your money. I got my money back after weeks of effort and since they didn't have unlimited calling in those days I probably spent more than I got back. This is what those places count on... people not willing to spend money to right an injustice.

    In case you don't know what 4pt text is, it kind of looks like this: ....... (I just typed you will be billed if not cancelled)
     
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  17. PostHistory

    PostHistory Member

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    This is still the case in regards to Red Zone PVP area's.
    I strongly Disagree with your idea about strong deterrents....
    One must first own some kind of craft, this would display some kind of game know how at that stage...
    They then must also buy a Thruster to enter Space once again displaying some kind of game know how...
    THEN they are greeted by the famous image in my OP about entering space...

    As a new player playing any game... It would be fool hardy to not read any dialogue that comes on screen for the first time. And once again what can MA do? Implement an IQ test to be sure people don't rip themselves off? come on...

    And no, I would not be inclined to rob or steal in the real world... I leave that for games where that is a possibility... you can not draw the same conclusions of game play to real life... why? okay lets go down this rabbit hole...


    GTA? A lot of people play this game online... are they all murders and car thieves?
    CSGO? are these guys Terrorists in real life?
    EVE online? are these guys also thugs of the real life?

    and are all the Men that are running round in these games as Women? are they secretly homosexual too?

    Seriously... its a game that wait for it... it is a MMORPGRCE,
    Do I need to break this down further?
    Sure why not... Massive Multiplayer Online ROLE Playing GAME Real Cash Economy.

    Note a few words in here...
    ROLE.... to act out a role, to play a character... (Oh wait.... I can see what you will say here... "Your inclined to play who you really are... Okay... So Heath Ledger as the Joker... was he really what he acted out too?)

    GAME... DUH! (Poker is a game, Black Jack is a game, Roulette is a game, EVE Online is a game and guess what you can loose money playing them too.)
     
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  18. Yoshii

    Yoshii Member

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    Another legal thing companies do is put some of the text in a color so faint you dont see it. You think you know what you signed but you do not. Companies can also not bother giving you large print of their contract after you tell them you cannot see what they want you to sign.
    Another legal thing in country where i live is a charity is legally entitled to phone you and ask for money even if you tell them not to and to stop bothering you.
    Another example in my country that is clearly unethical. We have what is called a "Do not call list". Idea is you put your number on that list so companies to not phone you with sales calls. That list gets sold to companies because they know those phone numbers are real. They call you once and if they do not keep calling you with same number and name they are off the hook. I registered my number for the do not call list and sales calls to my number doubled.
    Cell phone companies in North America have really bad reputation for the ingenious ways they manage to suck money out of their customers and it is all done legally. One example: You change your cellphone plan but they wait for a few days to put it in system and you get several hundred dollar bill because they did not inform you it would be several days before they would update in their system the changes you made.
    Im sure we can come up with MANY examples of unethical things companies do legally.
    Do not hang your hat on "Mind Ark says it is legal therefore it is okay".
    Many things in real life are legal but are NOT okay to do.
     
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  19. Suza

    Suza Member

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    Wow, attempt after attempt to derail the point... you are getting desperate there Hax.

    Yet again you fail to read *and* comprehend what I said, I said legally steal and gave an example of such, and amusingly you turn around and use the same argument in terms of the game. Why then is it unethical for you to legally steal in real life when you have no compunction to legally steal in the game? They boil down to the same thing, but you hide behind the fact that IT IS A GAME and then compare it to games of chance that often have addicted people playing them in some desperate attempt to hit the big one. If that is how you view the people you take advantage of then you are even worse than a pirate, for you are preying on those who have a disease and cannot help themselves...

    Poker is a game of chance, blackjack is a game of chance, roulette is a game of chance. What you and your compatriots do is not chance. What you do is called rez camping in other games and there like here it is *LEGAL* but severely frowned upon. You blame others for not taking adequate steps like failing to arm themselves in an attempt to rationalize your stealing. But rationalizing is just a way to salve your conscience to try and paint yourself in a better light, which sadly you are failing to do as it just further points out your shortcomings.

    I could easily spend $100 and have my son set up an account and equip him with a quad and ammo and give him a list of names to go after and believe me, having seen him play games of this type, your socmates would be badly overclassed. Since he is in college now it's not worth distracting him from his studies. Education is more important than wasting precious time preventing thugs from stealing money from people who have not been properly educated in this game...

    And talking about educating people... there are some who go out of their way to try and do this to prevent space noobs from losing everything but people like you and your socmates vilify them and attack them because it hits you in your wallet. You are quick to cry exploit while your socmates are just as quick to use exploits. Don't believe me?

    oOooOoOOooOOOooOooo
    .... your speaking in ghost talk
    who was flying .... ship?
    i just looted the hell out um lmao
    well if you looted them then you should have it in your system
    and if you died didnt they loot it back ?
    i didnt die in fight
    you comminted suicide ?
    or did your friends kill you ?
    naw man i trust my friends on here with anything i got i wanted to get back fast so i reclogged

    Clear proof of exploiting cause they knew they has a crapload of loot. Sadly the nameless person who got looted knew better but they were not thinking clearly and paid the price for it. But since your crewmates have a habit of taking advantage of him, I should not be surprised...
     
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  20. PostHistory

    PostHistory Member

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    I "Hide" behind the fact that it is a game? far out man... no need to hide the fact that it is a game because it is marketed this way :).
    Suza seems you have an issue distinguishing Real Life from Game Play.
    Poker is not a game of chance but a game of skill, knowing when to hold them, knowing when to fold them. Roulette on the other hand...
    I also note you conveniently left out Eve Online out of your counter argument, a game with similar game play.
    I also note you dropped your argument about how I must be like this in real life due to my actions in a video GAME. (I call this progress)

    Our Game play is a big game of Chance... we have no way of telling who is carrying loot and who is not, we also have no real way of knowing who is new to game vs old.
    I don't blame them for not carrying weapons into battle I think its silly not to though. Like I said you can bring [Mr Huggy] to battle if you like but it will not stop us shooting at you.

    I will say this though the people that loose big to us... know better, rest assured the "noobs" do not fund our activities :)

    I have already covered this numerous times, have a legitimate case to file? file it!


    Now to get back to another part of this thread, I did mention part way through I will post ideas that seem fair and balanced on the OP, Have any?

    You harp on about the "noobs" entering space and how they know no better... how can we over come this?
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
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