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Outraged By that scam artist. Not My Pesident.

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous Discussion' started by Orpheus Clay Blades, Apr 28, 2016.

  1. San

    San Well-Known Member

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    With all due respect, but this is exactly what he did. He was open to feedback before the release of this proposal, now he put it forward and is asking for feedback again. Nothing is decided upon, and the wildest speculations exist about what powers to decide anything he actually holds. Calling his appointment an election was stupid, but beyond that nobody knows anything for sure, except that MA continues to own our virtual lifes here. Does anybody ever actually read stuff before going ballistic? Not saying I never caught myself making that mistake.

    In the end, we are all still paying customers who with their money decide about the survival of anything. If too many people don't like it and pull out, that's it. Competition is abundant. Anyone with a business track record is at least aware of it.
     
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  2. the Prophet

    the Prophet Active Member

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    sorry but to me his plan looks fully developed already, and i can't remember any discussion about it before. also i can't remember any form of discussion or poll what the player's most important wishes really are, and i'm 100% sure TP taxation wasn't any of them.
     
  3. San

    San Well-Known Member

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    Well, he has prompted the discussion and it is happening right now at the address below. I don't understand the complaint about not being able to discuss it before, sounds like you want to discuss an idea even before its inception? Of course a proposal should be developed to some degree to be plausible (if subjective) before letting it out. Nothing is decided until it is implemented or MA says it is going to. And there have been several threads before created by ND where he was inviting debate about his role.

    http://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?284765-Government-forum-on-Entropia-Forum
     
  4. the Prophet

    the Prophet Active Member

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    i just wanted to point out, that his proposal even had its own website update with all its content ready, before any person ever heard of it or any discussion was even started.

    http://presidentofvirtualreality.com/

    does your local government also start any kind of initiative without any person ever requesting, discussing or voting about it?
     
  5. DaughterOfAnarchy

    DaughterOfAnarchy Active Member

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    Actually yes... that's exactly how things are done...

    1) The government comes with a law proposal
    2) It is made public (usually put up on the government website) and public consultations are open
    3) Depending on received feedback (from consultations with syndicates, civil organizations and so on) idea is revised

    What we could debate on if we wouldn't be presented at least a complete idea?
     
  6. the Prophet

    the Prophet Active Member

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    in my very humble opinion, we (MA+players[+POVR]) could debate on any of the REALLY uncountable ideas, which have been brought up by the actually playing and paying and praying people of this universe, that have been ignored without any debate (besides players only) or any revision or any statements or answers (from the creating and responsible people).

    we could also talk about the biiiiig list of known issues and problems, a little bit of unfinished stuff, or all that unfulfilled promises that still keep us questioning?

    or let's talk about the key issues of making EU as enjoyable AGAIN as it already WAS to the players, before someone jinxed it here and there, because they had awesome ideas, about what "we" like and stuff?

    [​IMG]
     
  7. the Prophet

    the Prophet Active Member

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    this thread is a waste of time anyways ... we're all american men in this wild wild west, land of the free



    have fun & cu around :angel:
     
  8. San

    San Well-Known Member

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    I suggest we take it over there to the address where it actually matters.
     
  9. Orpheus Clay Blades

    Orpheus Clay Blades Member

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    Honestly we need more than just a president of EU. Creating a government in game with no other members is idiotic. We need atleast planet reps in addition and I believe in not allowing MA staff or PP run for office. Why not let MA or PP run? Its pretty much nepotism.
    DEMAND NEW ELECTIONS. if they want this they should at least do it right.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 28, 2016
  10. OZtwo

    OZtwo Active Member

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    Small side note here, do you support pirates? My guess is that yes you support them 100%. sad to say.
     
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  11. DaughterOfAnarchy

    DaughterOfAnarchy Active Member

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    Actually no; I'm all against unorganized PVP.
     
  12. OZtwo

    OZtwo Active Member

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    See you are so new to the game you really don't even know Neverdie. He supported them 100% and even offered his Mothership to them to use as they like until he got mixed up with an event and MA made him give away as he offered to the winner. One of the main reason I didn't vote for him and voted for B! (B was me btw)
     
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  13. DaughterOfAnarchy

    DaughterOfAnarchy Active Member

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    I'm not Neverdie's fan girl.

    He did many things that I consider wrong (for example the one you mentioned or logging his dead girlfriend's avatar).

    Still, in my book, he did more good to this game than bad (and I only heard about EU because I heard of Neverdie's story and his Guinness book world record) and I consider this idea to be a good one (for reasons expressed on the other forum).

    Hell, I even appreciated that in this elections he was the only one that put his money where his mouth was, paid the registration fee and run for the office; is hard to believe in a candidate that didn't trusted himself to even (pay and) register for the elections and provide an alternative (and please don't tell me $1,000 is a lot of money, I know it is, but it could have easily been a crowdfunded thing if someone was actually able to rally enough supporters behind him - 100 supporters paying $10 each and here's your registration fee).
     
  14. DaughterOfAnarchy

    DaughterOfAnarchy Active Member

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    And since I mentioned that I posted my reasons why I think that's a good idea on the other forum, I think is fair to also mention them here, not direct people to another site.

    So here are my most relevant posts from there:



    #1

    EU is a zero sum game (actually, less than that, since MA earns a share), so is clear that whatever money someone makes has to come from someone else paying those money. Now Neverdie's campaign had a single big idea... create tons (not even I dare to say the number he said) of jobs (by definition a job is a way of making money). Now putting the two things together... how come anyone haven't seen this coming? Zero sum game, some people getting jobs (making money)? Wasn't that obvious that some other people will have to (indirectly) pay for those jobs? Where else did you thought those jobs would come for? Who did you thought will pay for them? I really fail to see how this is now such a surprise to so many... to me it was crystal clear from the moment I saw his electoral program... it was also one of the reasons I voted for him in the first place, because I look forward for a job in a virtual world. [​IMG]

    What I think that ND wants to accomplish is to divide the participants in virtual reality games (for now EU) in two distinct categories of people:

    - people that are here for entertainment, don't mind paying for their entertainment and which will get all convenience services offered to them (on a silver plate); and that is, probably, the first of many examples to come... want to get from point A to point B (even if point B is on a different planet) without any hassle, worries or wasted time - sure, just pay the bill; is just like IRL, on a restaurant, you don't even have to go to the bar to grab another beer, you just call the waiter

    - people that are here working / offering their services to the first category of players; they would do (more or less) qualified jobs, that are not necessarily neither easy, pleasant or entertainment, but they will get paid for this and they will be actually able to make a profit out of this, treat it as a (full time) job or even as a business (for example, at the hourly rates proposed by Neverdie, this payment will not only beat the minimum hourly rate in my country big time, but even the average hourly rate)

    As long as he is convinced that he can attract enough people from both categories in the game, I really can't think what's wrong with this approach - some people will pay for their entertainment, while some people will be paid to provide said entertainment for the first category. Actually, is very possible that the same person will move from one category to another depending on their evolution in real life - they may start as a service provider during their studies period, get hooked in the game, then when they'll graduate and get a RL job paying much better than their VR job, they will stick with the game, but switching to the consumers side.

    That will probably hurt the big depositors / rich people, but since is not a hidden nerf, but a very visible tax, it will not hurt anyone more than they allow to be hurt themselves (like I'm convinced that people don't really NEED to TP as often as they do today and they'll find ways to reduce their teleportation costs to a level they can afford). On the other hand, I think it has the potential to really help new players or players on a low budget, though drastically increasing game retention among new players (at $1 or 10 PED per hour, that's ten times what you can realistically hope to make by sweating).




    #2

    Also think at it like that:

    1. What better advertise (at least for certain demographics) than "For playing WoW you have to pay $15 per month, by playing EU we pay you $15 per month guaranteed!* (* = certain conditions may apply)"? FREE MARKETING

    2. People would come, would do the 15 hours per month conscript work, they will be paid 150 PED, $15 - so they will see that the advertising is true, no marketing BS hype. INCREASED TRUST

    3. At the same time they will see that they can't really withdraw their $15 right away and that they are left with a lot of gaming time after their 15 hours per month conscript work is done, so many of them will say "what the hell, if it's free money, I may as well play with them a bit". NEW PLAYERS

    4. For sure some will lose the money and quit, while others will hit a hof or something, withdraw and quit, but the vast majority of players will just slowly consume their PEDs and, as a beginner, if you play at least somehow smart, 150 PED (recycled again and again) can easily hold you a month, 'till their next "pay check" and they will start being hooked to the game. NEW PLAYERS RETENTION

    5. Eventually, they will slowly skill up, buy some minimal gear and will come to the point where their "sallary" will no longer be enough for all they want to accomplish, and since by then they would already be quite hooked and involved in the game, that's very likely they will start making their own deposits. CONVERSION TO PAYING CUSTOMERS

    It's a system already practiced by a lot of sites/games to a different degree, look at all casino / forex / betting sites that give you some free deposit money, without any personal depositing required, but you can't withdraw them 'till you cycled them a certain number of times. Just like in our example, sure, some people bet them, lose them and forget about the site, some others bet, cycle them enough number of times then withdraw, but the vast majority bet them, lose them, get hooked and start depositing their own money to fuel their newly acquired passion (or addition). Would you prefere MA uping the house cut from loot by 1% and use said 1% for paying "themselves" for these new jobs salaries? It would probably be easier to implement, hardly noticeable (hey! is 1% in a game where random has an important role), and it would sure not generate so many polemics. The only difference here is that, instead of that, ND proposed a different, transparent financing solution - initially deeds selling, then TP fees; at least with his proposal everyone can decide how much they are willing to invest or spend towards this.

    Now compare this to what we have now, when a new player is expected to either depo right away (at a point where he can't be hooked already to the game; heck, at a point where he probably didn't even properly understood what the game is about) or spend a lot of time sweating (at a 1 PED / hour rate)... is no surprise that new players retention and conversion towards paying customer is truly abysmal nowadays.
     
  15. Orpheus Clay Blades

    Orpheus Clay Blades Member

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    Yeah the thing is this is a game. I am not interested in providing someone a job by paying a fee. If you want a JOB go get a JOB. Expecting people to make a living in this game is ridiculous. It will only promote ALTS. At a certain point people will not be interested in paying for every thing in game. Increase the cost of playing to support lazy and largely incompetent people yeah great idea, about as good as the ateam holding apts and shops for events so they can get 3 to 4 times the amount than if it was auctioned.
     
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  16. OZtwo

    OZtwo Active Member

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    If the game was not change at all and stay as it is now would you be willing to deposit $50ped a month? Now that 50ped a month would not go to your PED card but directly to MA as a subscription fee. Would you pay it?
     
  17. DaughterOfAnarchy

    DaughterOfAnarchy Active Member

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    At the time being, my gaming budget is $15 per month, so no, I wouldn't paying.

    On the other hand, I did played subscription based games and I didn't had a problem with that.

    Heck, in my last game (also somehow a RCE) I even paid BOTH a subscription fee (it was 8 euros per month there) and bought in-game currency from shop (or other players) for another few euros; I still made profit out of it when I cashed out. PM me if you want the name of the game to confirm it, not mentioning it here since it may be against rules.
     
  18. OZtwo

    OZtwo Active Member

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    I'm not asking about your past. I am asking now. Would you deposit $50ped a month to play. Yes or no. A very simple question.
     
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  19. DaughterOfAnarchy

    DaughterOfAnarchy Active Member

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    First of all (and no sarcasm here) decide if it's PEDs or $, since you used both $ and PED in both posts.

    Anyway:
    - yeah, I would pay 50 PED per month subscription fee; I could still have fun, relax and at least break even
    - no, I wouldn't pay $50 per month subscription feesince this exceeds my gaming budget

    Clear, yes/no answer, as you requested
     
  20. OZtwo

    OZtwo Active Member

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    Yes it did. Yet you are debating about this demanding that I should pay? See you said it right there, you simply do not have the money. And yet here you are saying that we should pay more for the game? So you need to look at it as in your budge here. As you stated, again, if it became to much to play in this game you would leave. Well. Guess what, you are fighting for this which at the end most likely you will just leave the game due to the cost it would cost you. You really need to think out what it is your are debating here. Us 'rich' people as you like to say on PCF really do not want to pay your game play. So you can join us in this or fight us. But please lets try and keep the game as it is now.
     

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