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Old Ideas, New Moon

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous Discussion' started by Mutant Atrax Stalker, Aug 26, 2018.

  1. Morgoth

    Morgoth Member

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    Completely untrue... But your not a space player so I get that speculation can replace decent research into the system.

    Hit me up ingame, we'll get that fixed in 2 minutes, hate to see decent players get shafted by a poorly constructed game mechanic. :)
     
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  2. Mutant Atrax Stalker

    Mutant Atrax Stalker Active Member

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    Someone was in rookie today saying that a red triangle on a ship meant it was armed. Green unarmed.

    He actually argued about it. But at least quit once I linked some relevant discussion with "more established space players" lol.

    Soooo many myths in EU.
     
  3. Louise Ranavolana Brooks

    Louise Ranavolana Brooks Active Member

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    Interesting, apparently I have a red triangle and I have title notable attached to my ship. This occurred when I purchased weapons and fitted them to my quad.
    I have only ever fired my guns at another player once and I looks like I had the triangle before I ever fired them.

    I purchased weapons on the advice of a good player who advised they increase the ships SI a bit - makes it that much harder for a pirate to kill me.
    So you could well be right OZrwo.

    Also interesting that Karma can be manipulated and that the method is confidential - to those in the know.
     
  4. OZtwo

    OZtwo Active Member

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    Well, again since I have never have had a gun on my Quad(s) and I do buy them full TT yet show up red due to giving a lot of free rides planet to planet and kicking them out when landing to pick up the quad then I ask how else would my quad be getting bad rep? Still the question is, am I getting it both from when I jump out and kicking the passenger out or just when kicking passengers out? I do miss jumping out. I stopped when someone in space said I was a bloody RED dot! lol
     
  5. Morgoth

    Morgoth Member

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    Incorrect, quads SI remains 1200 with or without weapons attached.

    Red and green triangle are subjective to karma alignment of the parties viewing each other. Weapons and eventually captain level will change a neutral ship from blue to either green or red triangle, once again subjective to karma alignments of the players looking at each other.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2018
  6. Mutant Atrax Stalker

    Mutant Atrax Stalker Active Member

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    To those who google, really.

    There is a thread about it on PCF name "Karma comes back around" or something and alainax started it.

    In 2011. Last update to OP was 2014, and almost every thread regarding karma since ends with a link to that thread. Which makes it pretty easy to find.

    1 kill = 1 karma point. Nothing else. Mob or player no matter. Your current karma affects the type of point you receive.

    As to how titles work and what affects them nobody is going to explain that in one minute or a quick forum post. And it's not so much weapons as "gunner seats". That's how you get stripes on your triangle.

    I'm not even going to dig up the link type the words 'ship karma entropia' into google.

    This thread has also apparently run it's course. I'll be more direct with the mods than last time.
     
  7. Louise Ranavolana Brooks

    Louise Ranavolana Brooks Active Member

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    What Atrax ? because you have said everything you want 2 say the thread has run its course.
    There was other interesting inputto this thread than from you
    And seems you can roll out pages of stuff but its just roo much effort to post a link that could be useful.
    Maybe before you bother the mods, you could be a bit more direct with yourself
     
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  8. the Prophet

    the Prophet Active Member

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  9. Morgoth

    Morgoth Member

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  10. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    Brand new ships have always shown as a red triangle in space to players in positive ships. But as with all things Entropia, it's dynamic! Don't trust it too much!

    I'm very skeptical that jumping out of your ship or kicking passengers out will change anything other than the temporary label on your ship. The display tag has 3 components: your ship's karma, your avatar multipler and your passenger's multiplier. I almost always jump out of my quad to land on Arkadia and it has never noticeably affected anything. But I admit it could be that my quad's karma is too high for me to notice any change.
     
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  11. Mutant Atrax Stalker

    Mutant Atrax Stalker Active Member

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    No, Louise.

    Because the thread touched on a hot button topic. That brought you in on your endless petty sniping and pissed off the people that were trying to interact to the extent that the thread now has more vague, general shade casting in it than useful information. It's better if you just snipe at Morgoth directly because when you start getting vague, you start offending everyone.

    So this thread also unlikely to ever return to any "on-topic" status. As OP I've requested a lock but it's not going to matter.

    There's no need to go toe to toe with you on this lol. The only reason you're not like this on other related forums is because if the mods didn't shut you down in a minute, the community would. Your endless petty bickering and harassment is wearing on everyone. The "punish the community" ethos from the top only feeds the strain.

    As long as this community continues with no leadership like an actual community manager or at a minimum a competent forum mod, it will continue to be toxic and small, because they're not policing it, and they won't allow the community to police itself.

    Since, due to related issues there is more (and sometimes more accurate) news about what's happening in Arkadia elsewhere, there's really no need for me to be here.

    Kudos to the few people here trying to contribute to some feeling of community and engage in a healthy fashion. Most of you I'll continue to see in game or in other, more healthy game-related communities. I do roll out pages of stuff, but not to satisfy one individual's addiction to outrage.

    Unless it's mine :)

    Time for another break from arkadiaforum.com.

    GL Arkadians, Stop by Celeste North #10 when you're out shopping around.
     
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  12. Morgoth

    Morgoth Member

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    ya... if I'm being honest half the reason I am being vague is because I spent a lot mapping the karma system and dont care to share it with certain players interacting in this thread... and the other half is I kinda liked them posting incorrect info so I could respond with correct info as a kick in the teeth. So my apologies, please accept this info as a make up gift to a thread that could have been really great had parties not contributed to its demise in one way or another. Some info that prior to this was not publicly known.

    There are 3 karma alignments, evil, neutral, and good. With 5 levels for good and evil, and 0 being neutral.
    -5 | -4 | -3 | -2 | -1 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5
    <-----------------Evil Neutral Good ------------->​

    ALL karma titles can be augmented by captain professional level. I will not share the exact breaking points publically, but if you have a neutral/no titled ship, once you pass that first threshold in captain professional level you get a neutral karma title.

    Now red, green, blue triangles

    Blue = no one in pilot seat or unarmed.

    Green = Ship with the "same karma alignment"
    example:
    Good ship sees other good ship = green
    Evil ship sees other evil ship = green
    Armed neutral ship seeing another armed neutral ship = green

    Red = Ship with different karma alignment
    examples:
    Good ship see's neutral ship with a high enough level in captain profession to get a title = red
    Good ship see's evil ship = red
    vice versa with evil to good/neutral with title, and neutral with title to good/evil

    Green strip = friends list.



    So ya... triangle color is not a good way to tell friend or foe :)


    love you atrax! my bad again bro, hopefully this puts the thread on the map for positive reasons.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 9, 2018
  13. Louise Ranavolana Brooks

    Louise Ranavolana Brooks Active Member

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    Atrax with the greatest respect, I was indulging in endless petty sniping at Morgoth, my post was directed at you.

    It is starting to seem like when you have had your say about stuff that's the end of it, nobody else can possibly add anything of interest or use.
    So Atrax has finished pontificating hop to it mods, close the thread. Also tremble because he is not happy with you.

    Far from sniping at Morgoth, I was interested in what he said about the effect of adding weapons SI.
    The other matter could Karma be manipulated ?, Morgoth did bring that matter up, but my comment was not directed at him specifically - Do not tell me that everyone would not be concerned that there is a procedure kept confidential to doing so.

    My earlier post was also directed at you - when you were going on and on and on about the problems re Ark Moon & PvP - what was I suggesting, that I would be staying away from the place till an upgrade.

    That went a bit over your head also I guess. So what was your topic again? The sound of your voice maybe. Probably a good idea mods step in and lock your thread. From originally being someone who I thought would bring interest and information, I have relegated you to a tl;dr status.

    And Morgoth, the only reason I do not like you is not because you have placed me on a KOS status, go for it as often as you can catch me sport.
    Not because you loot - that's what pirates do and really the fault there is players silly enough to bring loot to PvP.
    Its the endless BS you go on with to justify why you do kill and loot.
    Other than that you don't appear on my radar at all.
    PS that info was interesting - I will rep you for that, but your earlier post suggested that the system could be easily manipulated
     
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  14. Mutant Atrax Stalker

    Mutant Atrax Stalker Active Member

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    Wow.

    I seriously logged out, and wasn't going to be tempted back. HA!

    I already thanked Morgoth privately for a solid, unusually clear contribution to a confusing topic. I don't mean unusually clear for Morgoth, I mean unusually clear for EU at all where basic information sometimes has very real value.

    But Louise!


    Honest to goodness, I wouldn't have come back for more petty BS with you. This is perhaps the most well thought out and bluntly honest post I've seen from you in the public forum in three or four weeks here. I'm still deciding which of these little rating buttons is most applicable.

    Thanks for making it clear that I wasn't just being paranoid. I came here to share info, and I'm still pretty sure you attacked me for hiding it, just out of habit. In the spirit of that amazing post from Morgoth I'm going to throw you another bone.

    It's only technically incorrect to state that adding a weapon "increases the S.I.". The reason that people tell you to amount weapons is because they absorb decay, and that's not actually done by "increasing the S.I.". Weapon decay is cheaper than ship decay, total result = PED saved. PEC at a time.

    Morgoth also told me that he could help with ship karma. He didn't explain how and that's literally a valuable, commercial piece of information for him to have researched and developed. Sorry to "hide information" but in light of how EU has always managed to get on, I didn't think of it and it's not my present to give. Once you grasp the point system and how points are acquired, it's pretty obvious though.
    He may or may not be using the method I'm thinking of.

    Anyways back to the personal note
    (hope you didn't tl:dr out already :)

    I started this thread to share some positive, space related ideas and speculations about EU. It was a follow on to a thread that I had requested be locked because it created with the same intention and had turned very sour with the general BS of the moon launch, and the specific BS of you vs. morgoth which I have no need to detail.

    While your PMs carry a different tone your posts around the forum have been pretty relentless and focused for the duration of the time that I've been here.

    So, with that in mind this post got derailed before you ever showed up. Without you, it made it's way to another discussion of what's poorly implemented and/or broken in EU.

    Once you showed up and, as you've now made perfectly clear, started attacking me -I see no reason to continue posting in the thread, and in a normal forum when a thread has run it's course, gone off topic, and turned into a cesspool of people attacking each other, locking it is normal. I honestly shouldn't have to request that.

    All things considered I wasn't seeing high odds of it suddenly turning informative and then also all bluntly honest regarding a ton of this follow-on drama. Personal drama. Not "SPACE DRAMA WOoo0oOoOOO" sheesh.

    TBH I see what's being going on, and what is being treated incorrectly as "space drama" on this forum as a symptom as much as a cause and I hope there are other people reading more of what I wrote than a bit of tl;dr pontification.

    Maybe, maybe not.

    Anyways Louise thanks for taking a moment to put that all out there. Despite what you're saying to me there, that's one of the best pieces of writing I've seen from you. I know that sounds awfully condescending after what you just said about my writing, but I mean it quite seriously.
     
  15. Granny Rowan

    Granny Rowan Active Member

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    Just a quick aside for those that may still be doubting that Karma can be easily manipulated and may be used to deliberately lull a traveller into believing they are safe.

    First the Blue Triangle - as stated above it shows blue if ship is unarmed... so safe yeh...wrong... If the pilot (or pirate) is in the rear seat and ship only equipped with front gun then shows blue until they change seats. This is how the red triangles suddenly appear where none were moments before.
    Second, if you keep a close watch on the pirates you will often see not only name displayed changes in the hope of fooling people, but also different Karma... how? simple...they have several quads with different base karma, they then switch ships at the SS.

    When the moon was launched pirates turned up in droves.. yet on the first day until the fighting started they were all showing positive ratings.. so much so that defenders at the warp point were getting negative karma for shooting them.
    Soon evened itself out but was interesting to see.

    So one of the best changes MA could make to space is simple, remove Karma from ships (all ships) make them all neutral
    Make the karma reflect the pilots info only.
    A base karma made up from kills (plus for killing a negative karma pilot, minus for killing a positive karma or neutral) Neutral being those new to space and that have yet to fire a gun. This should then have a modifier based on either Captaincy level, or gunnery, or maybe a combination.
    If this is tied to the avatar it will be much harder to reset.. tho not impossible.
    For instance player tries piracy once or twice, hates it but now has bad karma. But if they go back and start killing people with worse karma they will get positive karma gains, and can therefore reset. It will be slow but not impossible. But gives them the right to improve their reputation and show they have learned from their mistakes.
     
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  16. Heidi Stassinopolis

    Heidi Stassinopolis Active Member

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    I sort of agree with this, but does it relate to players who like to go into PVP areas? There are even rare PVP events. Doesn't this have an effect on player info? Or is space karma totally unrelated to PVP on planets?

    Speaking of which how come PKing in lootable PVP isn't regarded in the same way as piracy???
     
  17. Mutant Atrax Stalker

    Mutant Atrax Stalker Active Member

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    100% voluntary entry, you literally have to pay to get in. If you try to go accidentally it kills you. There is very little room for misunderstanding, and there's nothing in a planet lootable zone that a new player wants badly enough to push through without understanding.

    They can just go around.

    You can't just click through thinking it's a redundant text or a warning about ship/thruster decay or whatever happens when an excited new players heads into space in their new ship and forgets that they have stuff on them that they shouldn't. You have to stop what you're doing, go find an outpost, pay the fee, and take the shot.

    Even for those that step out of their league, getting killed in planetside PVP doesn't leave you stranded and unable to participate in the game at all, potentially for a very long time because you forgot to bring a shoe repair tool, or didn't realize you were out of glue sticks for it and you can't walk back to an outpost.

    You do have to agree to go in space, and plenty of people are happy to point that out. However there are now more barriers to drunkenly overpaying on auction than there are to misunderstanding or simply forgetting and trying to leave a planet with a big chunk of your bankroll stacked in inventory.

    It's amazing what a 50 cent barrier will do for people's awareness. It might not hurt to add a window that says "You are carrying X.XX PEDS worth of lootable items" or something because after a couple days of hunting, I've lost ores that I forgot had been in my inventory for over a week. I made a quick check but forgot to look there since I hadn't been mining for days, but didn't have enough weight to put it in storage.

    As for the rest of it I don't think you can even create a lootable event in the PVP Event arenas? You also can't enable lootable PVP in events at regular land areas. If you can't be looted, it's usually not considered a serious issue.

    As regards the space karma, the actual part of it that is "karma points" is tied to the ship and has no counterpart, or relevance in planetside PVP. The title part of this comes from the captain skill, which is also not used on the ground. So none of it ties into planetside toxic PVP or event/landgrab type stuff.

    For another post at PCF today I already dug up this link to what happened when someone activated non-lootable PVP in a land area that is actually popular and frequented by new players, who didn't have any choice to be involved, and were just trying to sweat.

    I actually knew to look that up for the conversation because i remember that, and it was crazy fun for a lot of people. It was also endless torture for a lot of new players and EU probably lost people that day.
     
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  18. San

    San Well-Known Member

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  19. Heidi Stassinopolis

    Heidi Stassinopolis Active Member

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    Well Atrax's suggestion can't be that hard to implement, there already is a warning to stop you entering space if the vehicle inventory is has items in it.
     
  20. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    This only covers a tiny fraction of the times a player is carrying loot. Most of us have learned to never put things in our quads. There should be a warning EVERY SINGLE time a player enters space with loot anywhere on them. IMO, MA continues to act irresponsibly for not implementing this warning properly. The only certain way to know you have no loot is to get looted in a lootable zone. After that you're sure.

    Oh, and btw, the reason you can't take a quad to space with lootables in its inventory isn't to protect you from being looted, it's to close a loophole that allowed items to be transported instantaneously through lootable space. The way it works: I put loot in a quad and park it in a hangar. Then I fly out in another quad into space. I have 10 minutes to get to a pirate-free zone before my parked quad (containing loot) transports itself back to my inventory. They fixed that loophole within a week. But it was a fun week, I won't lie. :) This was before motherships came online so all transport was done in quads or sleipnirs.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 9, 2018

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