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Official events on taxed land

Discussion in 'About Planet Arkadia' started by Oleg, Jul 5, 2014.

  1. Oleg

    Oleg Active Member

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    I'm wondering how the community feels about official events being held on taxed land. Is this something that is acceptable to you? I feel this weekend's smuggler event sets a very bad precedent. Being forced to forfeit 5% of loot in order to participate is not acceptable to me.

    I know that some people have asked for this type of event in the Underground before, but I wonder how those people would feel if the event was being held at Sanctuary Cove or LA6, for example. Would it be right to effectively hand over free tax money to private land owners?

    To me it makes no difference whether it's a collectively owned area or an individually owned area, the principle is the same.

    Pointless poll attached but I'm more interested in discussion.
     
  2. Vadio

    Vadio Member

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    I take example King Kong in RT everyday people going kill
    And yes is taxed alot people go and dont complain about 5% tax
    Its About FUN and DROP

    In case underground its olny win/win/win

    Ark get share to keep develop new content(yes not all deeds as sold)
    Deed Owners are happy with TAX
    People Are Happy With large global/drops
     
  3. May

    May Active Member

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    Having official events on privately owned LA's is ofc not fair, but I don't think that has ever been proposed.
    So asking: "Would it be right to effectively hand over free tax money to private land owners?" feels like looking for problems that don't exist.
    The difference lies exactly in the fact that the AU is collectively owned by many colonists.

    This was addressed by David in his latest interview.
    He said that there will be limitations: in features and numbers, because without those, it could make it unfair to the other LA owners.
    E.g. like we see in the Smugglers event: there is no active Dev presence, no healing service provided.
    It seems they took care to balance it out.
    For the same reasons, there also wont be a high volume of official events held in the Underground.
    So for players who don't want to participate in those events: just skip the few that are held.

    If 5% tax would be the main reason for people to not participate in events, all the events held on LA's would never have worked.
    But they do attract plenty of hunters, so apparently the tax is not 'unacceptable' to the majority of players.
    It seems this is not really an issue for the community: but rather a personal dislike against taxed lands?

    Ultimately, a successful Underground is helping this Planet and all the Arkadians. Which ofc includes the other LA owners.
    If the AU becomes more popular, and people want to come to Arkadia for it; they are cycling on this Planet.
    And since they are already here, there is a much better chance that they will also check out and play on other parts of Ark.
    Many need a specific reason to travel across Space to go to other Planets.
    If events, either official or community made, can help to accomplish that goal: isn't that in the best interest of Arkadia?
    Not in the least because Land Deeds are viewed by many as an indication of how well that Planet is doing.
     
  4. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    The A-team coordinates official underground events on behalf of the deed owners. The privately held land areas are free to have any events they want whenever they want, however they can only be the traditional type that we are all familiar with. The underground is a different kind of land area because the deed owners don't have any ability to coordinate events like the owners of other land areas do.

    The other LA owners aren't really left out, IMO, since they can also buy AUDs and take part in the profits from these events just like anyone else.
     
  5. Oleg

    Oleg Active Member

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    What would you think if the AUDs were all owned by one person? What about five people, or ten people? If you think that's different to the current situation, at what number of owners does it become different?
     
  6. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    Well i am against taxed lands and missions for taxed mobs. But in the case of the underground i think it is reasonable since it is nearly impossible for the deed owners to organize any events or change tax rate.
     
  7. KikkiJikki

    KikkiJikki Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    I don't have a problem with the PP running events that are on LA's. This event does not set a precedent. Early after the Launch of Arkadia there was an extended hunting event that included SC and 8C. If an event is well designed and generates increased activity on Arkadia, I am in favour of it.
     
  8. May

    May Active Member

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    'If' that situation would occur, there would be a valid reason to raise those questions.

    But the difference is not in the numbers; it's in the technical set-up of ownership.
     
  9. Dan59

    Dan59 Active Member

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    For me doing an event or doing iron mission or here ifn, aca missions is same in that mater.
    If i wanted clean mob spawn with certain maturity i looked for LA wich have it.
    Newer questioned why Caly PP did irron missions for mobs wich can be found on private LA, i looked on it as an oportuninty instead.
    On Ark we dont have much private LA's jet but if someone want to do mutated mob irron/ifn mission there is one already and mob to hunt exist on private LA.
    In future Ark will have more LA's and Ark underground is also LA as any other.
    As on Caly or any other planet you are free to hunt/ do event/ do irron mission where you prefer on LA's or on wild part of planet.
    On Caly we had many events like robot events on Treasure Island wich is private and taxed and full of mobs you can do also irron missions too.

    Thing is not questionable, you can join or do other things as you prefer, take it as wellcome addition.
     
  10. SallyBridges

    SallyBridges Adviser Arkadia Adviser

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    I vote yes to ANY LA as I Love an Event and It Brings the community together and they are a lot of fun.

    I also Join the Weekly Events on LA6 I am by NO Means a highly skilled ava going after the mutated beladoths
    but its still a fun event for me I have some good friends from the event that are good fun and have a lot of knowledge and
    experience & the last 2 weekends I have picked up 2nd place on UBO L13 and Below that's a nice 75 ped .

    Yes i hit the revival terminal a lot and heal a lot but its an event and its fun also the reputation points are fun to change and its a great bunch of people involved and good banter going on between us and 5$ has a really good commentary too and its FREE entry tickets and so i dont mind paying tax on a land as theirs opportunities to wine a prize or also the Big Industries rewards.

    There is also the HOPE That there would also be some sort of nice item drops or discoveries in a smuggler event / oratan event / Future Event.

    I also think that 5% tax is not a lot in the overall scheme of things Also It Adds to the story line and
    If your Patient the A-Team will reveal there hands - theirs 2 new employees one specifically to work on stroy line missions
    they have said that there will be a Smuggler Armour mission at some point.

    Also When your running through peds in an event then as a deed holder its nice to know that you might get some small percentage of this back but surley if your against taxed lands then you cant go to Calypso ever again as don't CLD work as a taxed income !

    I also Loved the whole Smuggler theme and was Excited that it came the first night playing from the start until 2am in the morning my time ( in the uk ) yesturday most of the day on and today most of the day will be on - yes i have been doing normal activities on arkadia as well but the events there to go have fun I am also on the last stage of the Kadra Mission on Sanctury Cove And so paying tax is normal to me.

    I have lost ped down in the underground but then not lost alot when you global up top and the events good - Its a new dynamic not having healers and some of the real large drones when handled by 10 - 15 players is hard work but were getting the smugglers.

    I would have no problem with any taxed event as for me I see it as an oppertunity for something new / something to discover / maybe i might HOF, have been Trigger happy this weekend and dedicated extra money just to really go for it in this event I views the $50 as this weekends play as investment and fun and out of that $2-50 in tax ( potentially ) - well isn't that like the service charge or a tip on a meal or just like buying some one a drink at the bar.

    I would also Like to see One of the LA's or a New LA as a Land Grab event - not like the traditional one - and I dont have the ideas for this at the moment but could be a land grab every 3 months to take control of the LA and then that tax split out.

    NO Problem for me ;) ;) ;) and so used to playing on taxed lands its normal ;) ;)
     
  11. the-unknown

    the-unknown Member

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    The way I see it, the event in underground is fine, cos all the other LAs have individual owners who can run events hourly if they want, whereas for the underground, only the PP can run events as far as I know, regardless of any single person owning any amounts of Auds. This will be fair as long as they dont use their special healing, etc.

    This view is regardless of me owning auds or not, since end of the day everyone has a choice if they want to attend any events anywhere, held by anyone.
     
  12. Oleg

    Oleg Active Member

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    Thanks for you thoughts, I'm slightly surprised that there aren't more no votes.

    To pick up on some individual points:

    There are also a lot of people who don't go, or rarely go, to RT, because they don't like the way that Neverdie "double-dips" by having taxed land areas owned by himself (and if you still think those lands are really run by Kevin Rudolf and Lemmy, you need to think about it more).

    You know that an event doesn't mean you get more loot, right?

    I'm not suggesting that I have a problem with taxed lands. I don't (though I personally tend to stay away from them because I'm playing for profit and any tax affects my bottom line). I'm saying I (think I) have a problem with official events being held on taxed lands. The two things are not the same.

    I think you're referring to a planet-wide event on all mobs here though, which is a different thing entirely, because people could choose to hunt anywhere they wanted.

    If you think this then I ask again, where do you draw the line? If you believe that, say, 1000 owners is OK, but a single owner is not OK, then there must be a point somewhere in between where it changes from one to the other. You may not know where that point is, and it may be that different people choose a different point, but the point must be there. To me that standpoint makes no sense, because it's necessarily arbitrary.


    If an active hunter cycles 3k in a day, with an average return of 95% before tax, then a 5% tax rate would cost him 150 PED in TT returns per day. Do that every day for a year and it's 54750 PED. I think that's a lot :)

    No, that's not how CLDs work. There is no reduction in loot as a result of CLDs (conspiracy theorists may tell you otherwise). And again, I'm not against taxed lands. I'm against official events being held on taxed lands.
     
  13. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    You can draw the line at LAs that have public shared ownership via the new deed system, LAs which the PP manages. If you're against the manager running events in the underground, does that mean you want to prevent the AUD holders from having events in the underground? If you want to allow the AUD holders to run events, how do you propose to do it?

    Also, I see no problem with the PP running events on the 6 private LAs as long as they don't just single one out.

    It certainly is, but 3k per day for a year is not an event.
     
  14. atomicstorm

    atomicstorm Platinum Member Platinum Member

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    There are many people who have actually done extended tests on taxed and non-taxed land (Girts, Jenny, etc) and have found there to be marginal, if very little effect that tax has on your loot. 5% isn't taken from you, it appears that the 5% increases the variance on the land area (IE. takes from the pool). For example, if the 5% was taken from your loot, you would never get loots that had a single maxed Piron or a full ESI in it, but you do.

    So, really is pointless to spin up a thread complaining about events on taxed land. There will be oratan events on non-taxed land, if you so desire, or you don't have to show up... particularly as Calypso tends to always have competing events. If no one shows up in the underground to participate, they will do something else.

    What if I were to be suddenly given the power to have L1200 Mutated Beladoth roaming LA6 and having wave after wave like an oratan event? Would people be opposed? Most of the Arkadia player base appreciates these events and want more of them. To say they are handing over free tax money to Sanc Cove or LA6 is nonsense. Such a type of an event wouldn't be free to the land areas. They couldn't or we would be saturated with them.
     
  15. KikkiJikki

    KikkiJikki Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    The event had several categories of difficulty and related prize with each category giving you a choice of two mobs. For the category I hunted in, I think the choice was between huon and teladon. Both taxed mobs. So I think the precedent has been set.

    Anyways, I feel that land owners have made a an investment in the success of Arkadia and have put money into making it happen. I have no problem with the PP running events that generate income for them. The devs came up with the mutant DNA concept specifically so that land owners would have the option of running mobs that can only be found on taxed land and then the devs created missions for mutant mobs, to give incentive for players to hunt them. Events are just one more way that the PP can support them if that's what the PP chooses to do. I only see goodness in this. As players we continue have choices in how we participate. For example I think I saw that you wrote you wouldn't be participating in this event if it is shared loot (it is shared loot).

    I would hope that the PP would be even handed towards the land owners in that in the long term, no one landowner is favoured over others. But that is really a matter between land owners and the PP.

    Regards,
    KikkiJikki
     
  16. KikkiJikki

    KikkiJikki Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    That makes no sense to me. The way I understand it, the ped value of your loot is determined and then items and stackables are allocated to match the ped value. Not that I have ever received just an item in loot. There has always (for me) been some stackable content.
     
  17. Cyborg Bill

    Cyborg Bill Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    AS much as MA robs the player base blind 5% that you never see anyway really doesn't matter. Especially with the number of no looters and fagmint drops. As far as shared mob events that 5% is per kill not per person so you should not be feeling any pinch because it will all be in the nano pec region.

    And as always.. if this REALLY bothers you, you do have the option to not show up.
     
  18. May

    May Active Member

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    There might be a possibility that the 'issue' as perceived by you, is not considered as such by the vast majority.

    The point is: the difference in ownership set-up.
    "'If' that situation would occur, there would be a valid reason to raise those questions." =
    If the hypothetical situation would exist of a LA consisting of public shares, but they have all been bought by 1 person: then obviously something is not working correctly, and you would have a valid reason to ask questions about fairness.

    What I mean with: "But the difference is not in the numbers; it's in the technical set-up of ownership." is that you focus on the number of owners. But it's not about the number of owners.
    There are also LA's that are shared privately owned. That doesn't change the fact that they are privately owned.
    The AU is publicly owned. They are set-up differently technically. And that's why I think the whole argument of the number of owners is of no importance here.


    As has been pointed out several times:
    Privately owned LA's can hold events themselves, while the public owners of the AU don't have this possibility.
    So the PP is organizing an event in their stead.
    I really fail to see what your issue is with this.

    If your main concern is about fairness, and not about the tax: then what exactly have they done that is so unfair?
    When even another LA owner posts here that he has no problem with this event.
    Just because another PP has made some (supposedly) questionable decisions, doesn't mean that the A-team would do the same.
     
  19. coz1969

    coz1969 Member

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    I understand where you are coming from regarding PP's hosting events on LA's. I don't agree with your total assessment, but I do understand.

    The mention of Rocktropia and the Kong event.... well, really, it's an ongoing every day event set up and hosted by the PP, and the PP also claims all the taxes from the event. THIS, I have some issue with. You don't see any wave event on Calypso that is hosted on MA/Calypso owned lands. Heck, there are no wave events on ANY land areas there.

    With regards to the smuggler event in the undergound... it's a fine line, but as many have already mentioned, I see no problems with it.

    First, AFAIK, there is currently NO way for any player to set up an event in the underground... not even with existing spawns. With EVERY other land area, there is a means for any player to set up an event there.

    Second, this is not an ongoing event. It's a short few days, and then it's done. If it were to extend for what feels like an eternity, as many events on Calypso do, then yes, it would be a problem.

    Third, as someone also pointed out, the underground is a PUBLICLY held land area. Everyone has an opportunity to have part ownership, as the AUD's only cost 50 ped (from the broker). Yes, Arkadia still owns a number of those deeds, and it was stated that the taxes earned by those deeds will be used towards advertisment. So, again, I have no problem with this. Heck, the player base essentially purchased Calypso when they purchased CLD's for a total of $6 million USD. Yet, we only get 25% of the money earned by Calypso. With the AUD's, you get your full share in the taxes earned, based on the number of deeds you hold.

    Fourth, it was pointed out about Iron Missions/IFM missions, etc. When missions first appeared on Calypso, before they were on any other planet, there were, indeed, Iron missions for LA mobs..... exclusive LA mobs. Where else can you find a aurli or a kreltin? How about a daspletor or cornoanterion? I have never seen them except on PRIVATELY owned LA's. (yes, I consider the domes to be "land areas"). Yet, all these mobs have iron missions attached to them. Is that necessarily fair to other LA owners? Not really, but as many say "suck it up". These missions appear to favor the owners... but here's the thing, at least for CP, the missions were promised as part of the package deal when buying CP. And occassional A-team events were promised as part of the package for purchasing AUD's. I see no difference.

    So, overall, I haven't got a problem with occassional PP events on ANY LA... so long as they are short, and only sporadic.
     
  20. atomicstorm

    atomicstorm Platinum Member Platinum Member

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    What calypso does with missions or lack there of is entirely on them. Arkadia is their own planet and investment.. they are not beholden to precedents or lack there of from other planets. That is what makes arkadia unique and desireable.

    My problem with Kong and such on RT is that planet partners are not allowed to participate. When i see neverdie globalling and hoffing.. that is defiance. Maybe he has special considerations due to his name recognition. . I have no idea.. but many people find it defiant and infraction worthy.
     

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