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New Citizenship System

Discussion in 'Entropia Universe' started by Jenny ferr, Nov 8, 2011.

  1. Raven Lunchbox

    Raven Lunchbox Adviser Arkadia Adviser

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    fair enough Kmax. as i said my numbers were based on what has been said so far. ... I also said lets see what more info comes from this.. at the beginning of my post.

    I also trade alot of stocks.... so I understand where you are comming from. I just wanted to give a bit of a different perspective, most of the talk is about voting. for some reason.

    My main question would be... WHY? why are they selling shares to players, and why now?
     
  2. KMax

    KMax Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    That is a great question Raven, and it is also the mystery :) I do wish everyone luck though that are getting them. The possibility of being able to build your own place is cool idea, I see all of Calypso looking like the suburbs in 10 years lol.
     
  3. Chuck Jarrdhead Wholrey

    Chuck Jarrdhead Wholrey Active Member

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    Ultima Online screwed up the first world they built with allowing houses to pop up wherever.... Star Wars Galaxies, had offered a chance to build civilization from the ground up..... mining ores with different qualities for the same ore.... some was better for weapons, and armor, and some just to be used on buildings.... guild halls, different size houses, and tons of other buildings were offered.... most were sprawling shanty towns with no real planning or appeal, very few were done by a guild <like SGO>, and had the planning to have a great layout, and were able to be used to their potential.... its easy to jump in and drop buildings wherever.... I dont think MA will let the owners of these deeds have the land build rights that everyone is expecting. and hopefully the shanty town look will never happen
     
  4. MaxMoon

    MaxMoon Member

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    Why ?

    After also reading so much post and ideas etc about this subject, I also read the info

    http://www.mindark.se/investor-relat...ncial-reports/

    As posted here.

    and this bit stood out to me

    Forecast for Second Half of 2011
    The current operation is expected to
    increase in the second half with
    higher net deposits than previous
    year.

    From a business perspective the company needs to turn around the losses to survive so the only way to do this is produce more products that will generate more revenue. Hence the shares. The positive thing is that this particular part of the product may! turnover a small profit for players. But when all said and done the game is how they make there profit/loss and it needs to survive otherwise we have all lost out. The good thing I see here is the choice of purchase or not. I personal wont be 1. because im an Arkadian and 2 dont have the peds.

    My contribution to profit/loss is my small amounts I put into game and word of mouth telling people they should try it out. Add all of it together and lets hope the Universe will keep going.


    On a lighter note isnt stocks and shares gambling and isnt that against the rules :)
     
  5. Spike Black

    Spike Black Active Member

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    The forecast might have included the sale of the deeds. I doubt they thought this up over the last couple of weeks.

    If each of the shares can have a 10x10m plot then it's 6,000,000 square meters or an aprox 2450x2450m. I doubt that all the areas will be in the same place and spread across all the continents.

    Then it's just down to how a player claims an area and as you have to get a minimum of 3x3 one person could really screw up your plans if they manage to claim the opposite corner of your claimed areas before you can. I remember hearing stories of Anshe Chung buying all the land around someones elses just to blockade them and force them to sell.

    It could mean some enterprising people grabbing select plots just to force someone to buy their deeds at a vastly increased price.
     
  6. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    I think the difference between investment and gambling is this. When you invest, your money is going out into the world to do work and (if all goes well) return a profit. When you gamble, your money changes hands without any meaningful work being done as a result of the cash flow. If it's a high-risk investment, it may look exactly like gambling from the perspective of the investor, though it is fundamentally different under the surface.
     
  7. XeroX

    XeroX Active Member Pro Users

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    *cough* If you really don't know the difference between revenue and profit then please stop buying stocks IRL. o,0
    Otherwise... you should know that your post is most likely flawed. The investors get a share of the revenue. MindArk keeps the business and risk of turning the revenue high enough to create a profit. The investors are NOT involved in this risk. Also we have seen some hard numbers on revenue soo...
    Obviously the risk of buying an item with high markup and 0 tt remains. If MA ever goes belly up then all that money will be lost since only the tt value is guaranteed to be paid back in this case. I don't really get why noone mentioned that actually existing risk... but ok then again it is the case for every single high MU item in this game.
     
  8. Cyborg Bill

    Cyborg Bill Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    After all the shit that MA has pulled over the years I cant believe people trust them enough for this fiasco to even get a start..

    I feel sorry already to those they will screw in the end. Im just glad I stopped feeding the beast when I did. Sounds like another "MA"doff scheme from where I sit. ( "MA"doff...as in MA made off with all yer money)
     
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  9. KMax

    KMax Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    XeroX please go forth and spend away. I just gave my opinion and thoughts about the matter and being an actual invester in companys all over the US for last 25 years some not gone so well but most went really well. Let me tell you one thing though the ones that never went well were just like MA businesses philosophy and had crappy gimicks like this to make you want to invest er hrm think your investing in something good. Do as you will but don't ever call me inexperienced in these matters. I will not post on this matter again. Thread is closed to me.
     
  10. XeroX

    XeroX Active Member Pro Users

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    I see that part as good advice. As for the rest I didn't want to insult you but nevertheless I still think that it is important for everyone who considers this investment to know that it is based on revenue and not profit. Personaly I won't be depositing to buy any land shares and I wouldn't recommend anyone else to do so. However if you have extra PEDs locked up ingame then this should be an excellent opportunity to put them to some use.
     
  11. kobar

    kobar Member

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    (Minimum of 9 plots in a 3x3 format suitable for a structure).

    doesnt that mean to beable to build anything you have to have a minimum of 9 deeds?
     
  12. KikkiJikki

    KikkiJikki Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    Yes thats how I interpret it.
     
  13. KMax

    KMax Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    I have collected a lot of data in past day or so that I will share with you all. Sorry I said this thread was dead to me but figured I'd share for the good of the community.

    Kim from MindArk, explicitly stated on Calypso Forums you will only be able to build a house on each 9 deed lot 3x3 square area. You will not be able to manage mobs, hold events or anything else. And this is slated to be able to start in 2013, I and more thinking 2020 myself.

    They have yet to explicitly state what part of the revenue actually gets shared. ie, are auction house fees a part of it, are deposit fees a part of it, we can only assume item decay and tt purchases right now for sure and that is a total assumption also.

    I also think the 27-30% they listed is from the common fact if you deposit 10 dollars for example, 100PED - 3%deposit fee in actual PED, and when you go hunting on average your return will be about 70% so you get a 30% loss so that's where I think the 30% comes from and the 27% is from the 3% loss from the deposit. That is just my take on where those numbers come from though.

    I am actually guessing it is much less then 27-30% because a lot of miners and hunters are good at turning closer to 90%+ return on their hunting and mining. And lets face it the people depositing are the revenue and they are the ones turning around 90+% on their activities. I know I for a fact I return over 90%+ a lot very seldom do I get below 100% even after decay anymore when I mine on Calypso or Arkadia. Hunting for me is still a whole other ball game I get 50%-120% usually so you would be making revenue off me if I hunted on Calypso but not so much if I just mine.

    Hope this helps make any decisions. These are not facts above just my interpretation on how I am looking at the whole thing and hard data I have gathered.
     
  14. remontoire

    remontoire Member

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    Really, the deeds sale and handing out future revenue in return is a lousy way of raising cash. Yes, you do get the money and people will have an incentive to stay on Calypso, but its a huge liability going forward for Calypso. What would be far better, would be selling deeds to a LA, and having a system in place where people get revenue from it and are able to vote on settings. Far more transparency, far less encumbrance and still quite inclusive compared to just selling land.

    Certainly I hope any land lot deeds Arkadia sells will be closer to this than to what is happening now on Calypso.
     
  15. billairboy

    billairboy Member

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    Selling part of the future profit to finance your expansion and investments are what happends in real life all the time. That's why we have shares and stock markets. They are getting the same amount of money that they planed to get from selling Calypso in the deal with SEE that broke down.
     
  16. Cyborg Bill

    Cyborg Bill Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    I have just had this pop into my head after catching up with this thread again.

    Has anyone given thought about what happens when you gain 9 of these deeds to quote build on? As far as I know we can not build buildings. Soo that being said heres what I see happening.. a sub skill will be impleneted based on carpetry skill, meaning some will have to skill up to be able to construct the materials to build with. Then there will be yet another skill for building construction. Bottom line is everyone that is goofy enough to go for this ploy will find themselves subject again to MA's whim and schedule of convienience to develope this sector. Going by their lack of progress to bring back stuff promised now and delayed now for years do these people buying land deeds honestly expect MA to honor them by completeing this and not go about it half assed as they have for EVERY system thrown in at random since crytropia began?

    Lastly... in the end what would be the gain..no one really uses housing in game for anything other then storage. Elaborate buildings like the castles and keeps all over Caly lay dormant and dark..What is the purpose of putting more buildings up with litle to no use? It is almost garanteed you will not be able to place mobs on these properties, and if it is set up like current houseing the property can not even be mined.

    To that extent I will go one step further...To reward the high dollar investors I see MA letting the privleged class place their claim to properties where lucrative resources are found allowing them to in essence make themselves exclusive to availabilty of these resources simply by setting their estate to private.

    Call me a doom sayer but I am sorry MA's track record screams the normal player base will get screwed in some way and the elite of the universe wll again be rewared.
     
  17. billairboy

    billairboy Member

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    Well, the possibility to maybe build houses and other stuff on the land is more like a "bonus" anyway. The real value of the land holdings are the right to get a share of the planets revenue. The votes and land is more like "bonus" features.
     
  18. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    People are way overthinking this.

    It's quite simple you pay 1000 peds for a share, and for those 1000 peds you get a weekly revenue. MA claims returns will be up to 30% on a yearly basis, but you should expect 10% to prevent getting disappointed.

    All the rest is future bonus stuff that may or may not be something fun.

    How exactly they calculate the revenue you get is irrelevant. Just think of it as buying a tiny part of a LA you have totally no say over.

    Not saying anyone should or shouldn't buy it, but don't try to overthink it, and make it more complex then it is.
     
  19. KMax

    KMax Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    But without over thinking we would never get cool sites like Entropia Tracker and Entropidea.info and many others. Sometimes over thinking is what makes the world turn, without it we would still be cavemen beating things with sticks because that is just simpler to think about. :)
     
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  20. kobar

    kobar Member

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    I would have much rather MA made it possible to buy shares in land areas or motherships. So then a group of people can go in on buying something with pooled peds. Guess the system is already there now they just need to apply it to them.