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Just how big?

Discussion in 'Loot Theories' started by Cyborg Bill, Jun 8, 2011.

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  1. Cyborg Bill

    Cyborg Bill Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    OK after mining for a while to see how things are going to be here on Arkadia I see a disheartening pattern. Im sure many of you seen the thread of mine about wanting to get away from paying the SDS people for nothing. Well this is a hand in hand post regarding that.

    After dropping 1800 ped in drops and recording every claim here is what I have seen. On average here on Arkadia I have been getting 10 to 15 claims more per 100 ped dropped. I mine mostly ore but I ave 52.6 levels in prospecting and 38.5 in surveying. I say in 100 ped dropped as it is too much to track when I add an en mat drop with the new finders or if I do a seperate en mat drop.

    Anway I have had runs as low as 21 claims per 100 ped and as high as 41 claims per 100 ped dropped. The avg claim rate per 100 I had on calypso was between 15 and 34 resulting in a avg tt return either just over even or just under by a few ped each run. Very rarely did this change to a big loss or a big gain.

    On Arkadia I get stable over 30 claims per 100 ped but yet I am getting same tt avg return or less then I had on Calypso. Soo this brings me to the point of wondering just how big a chunk outta my ass is SDS getting. Many here talk about less return over all so far in a place where the balance is supposedly the same as any other planet. This leaves the chunk SDS is getting as the only changed factor. So just how much exactly are they getting is my question. To me this is too much for them doing nothing other then the fact I had no choice to spawn anywhere else but there.

    If this is the case where it is even more solidly garanteed I cant make a living (avatar wise not RL) in EU I have to seriously debate wheather there is a future at all left for EU. I know many will feel the same as we have all been hanging on for Arkadia to come and produce change and giving EU one last chance to redeem itself as a viable entertainment source. If the economy of it all doesnt change or gets even worse then before having to pay someone else a cut they do not deserve I dont see this lasting much longer at all and the writing on the wall has just gotten brighter and clearer.

    Flame away if you feel but this is what I am seeing so far.
     
  2. Teiwaz

    Teiwaz Member

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    I might had missed it but I don't think there was any confirmation that SDS will get % of your spending's.
    There was post from David where he stated that each PP gets % of PEDs spend on PP's planet.

    What makes you think that you pay to SDS now?
     
  3. Milena

    Milena Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    There was an official statement from Kim (MA/SDS) on EF that the planet where you was born get some % from all your activities ;)
     
  4. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    not flaming, but i think your sample size is too small to come to a real conclusion. This combined with a certain mistrust against mindark.

    On the other hand: just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not watching you :)
     
  5. Cyborg Bill

    Cyborg Bill Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    Im not the only one...there are many cycling far more ped then I posting about what they are getting back in relation to what they used to get back on Caly...Look at Dante's thread and Sitrams thread on item drops in loot. People there have cycled 30 to 103k ped if I remember reading corectly and think things are outta balance. I am just wondering f these issues are not being effected by the chunk SDS is getting for nothing.

    I have a feeling it is but I am not a mathmatical wiz nor am I a statustcian I can only go by what I see and what I feel and these are my thoughts on the matter. Either way it Irks the piss outta me that Marco and company get a chunk after all their crap over the years.
     
  6. Dab

    Dab Member

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    MA's and PP's revenue comes from decay (supposedly), so this wouldn't have any impact on loot which is made up from the sale of ammo, auction fees, etc.

    I think your fears are unfounded. I could be wrong though and you have to take Marco's past statements that company revenue comes from decay at face value. Decay and whoever gets a share of it should not have an impact on loot.
     
  7. Cyborg Bill

    Cyborg Bill Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    Arkadia is like one big LA now...so any taxes (AKA Arkadias% MA% and SDS%) would come out BEFORE loot returns were given so decays really have no effect in this situation other then the amount to be shared amongst the 3 places not what I would be getting back after they get their cuts. It looks to me like Arkadia and MA get their 50/50 split and the % SDS gets come after the fact beyond what decays normally cover for revenue to MA and PP.
     
  8. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    They are 'complaining' about lack of items in loot, that has no relation to the tt returns they get. I know several people that have had better returns on arkadia then on calypso as well. People alwys have good and bad periods and people will always see patterns when there are none. For some real results cycle a million peds, compare it with a million turnover on calypso and then we have something to analyze.

    Like i said in your other thread if your feelings are this strong, chip out, let MA delete your avatar and start a new one, but realize that even when you start on Arkadia, MA still controls the loot and there will still be good and bad periods.

    As far as costs are concerned i'm pretty sure that MA gets 50% and the rest is divided between the current and starting planet. And wether Arkadia gets 40% and Calypso 10% or that Calypso gets 40% and Arkadia gets 10%, doesn't influence my returns.

    If you feel really bad about your loot i can only advice you to start to become a bit of a statician, and you will see that over time might not be as bad as you think.
     
  9. Cyborg Bill

    Cyborg Bill Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    GRRRRRRRRRR........ to make a bad mood worse.. just spent 20 minutes responding to harmony only to have a power spike wipe out what I had written. It even wiped it from the clip board I saved just before it spiked.

    Ill get back to this later when I am not so freakin aggitated.
     
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  10. Cyborg Bill

    Cyborg Bill Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    Ok lets try this again.. without power outages...

    BAck in an earlier post I stated that I think MA get 50% of normal return and Arkadia get 50% of normal returns. The share that SDS is getting is above and beyond that out of the returns we get after the platform and pp's get their take. Here is why I say this. Since being on Arkadia I have had a much bigger claim to drop ratio. I have been seeing more V and higher claims as well since coming. That would make one assume since I was staying + or - a few ped tt religiously for god knows how long before Arkadia was added that a change in the number of claims I am getting coupled with larger sizes on ocassion would mean greatter tt return.

    This is not the case. prior to the last VU where "Less lyst and oil was done supposedly I was still right at the + or - a few ped tt return on the longer avg. The first few runs I was actually + in tt return. I got close to the same return..Soo where did the added 10 claims per 100 pd dropped on avg tt value go? did it just poof into thin air... I think not.. I think that went to the SDS payment.

    I noticed on the larger claims the actual tt value was ALWAYS on the lowest part of the range. I also noticed where II lyst was close to a ped was now between 70 to 90 pec. 10 or so pec adds up fast over 20 to 25 claims and thats just for the lyst.

    I have been mining a fair amount of time now in game. I am positive I can find the ores.. I have mined long enough to know within a few drops if an area is ready or not. I dont need thousands of drops to tell if things are not right. (people piss me off when they say your sample size was too small. Ususally them same people will tell you you dont know what you are doing if you give them facts from large sample size Its all bullshit you KNOW when things are right and when they are not if you have played more then 6 months and payed attention)

    Now.. since I last posted I did a short run and my results are...235 ped dropped since VU where lyst was suppsedly lessened. 69 claims. 32 were lyst..4 were oil. I got 16 enmat claims on at least twice as many double drops. This added up to 180.26 ped tt. That to me screams someone is gettin a BIG fuckin chunk of what I work for. If I am avging a higher claim rate..and seeing more frequent claims not II or III then there should be a signifgant rise in TT and there is not. The only thing changed is I am not paying the shitbird tax to MArky MArco and his fucked up bunch for doing not a fuckin thing other then being awarded this cause I had no choice to spawn on a different planet.

    And to add as an after thought...I think we see less items in loot because items are set to drop if a loot is within a certain range..If another not so little tax is taken out PRE loot awarding then that could be keeping many from breeching that ped range where an item would have normally fallen without the shitbird tax.
     
  11. Ace Flyster

    Ace Flyster Member

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    As a miner for years...what Harmony says is true enough

    TT returns are the same on arkadia as they are on calypso.

    The cut MA/planet partners has changed as stated by themselves. MA 50% the rest shared between starting planet and the planet you are decaying on

    People believe as they will, take skill gains theories, loot theories.

    The truth (as i see it) that since they changed mining from more skills = bigger claims, and when claim rods only appeared when you got close to the coords. Returns stay the same no matter where or how you mine, or if there are green or red dots on radar, no matter what amp size you use, the list goes on and on. But tt returns are still the same.

    Drop enough bombs, record the results and you will also see

    Take what I say anyway you wish, but i have dropped over a million bombs and the key was recording the results.

    Rgds

    Ace
     
  12. Corey "Greyfox"

    Corey "Greyfox" Member

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    I hope that SEE is not getting a single PEC from you, but sadly they probably are.
     
  13. Cyborg Bill

    Cyborg Bill Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    This is my whole point...I am seeing roughly same returns but am getting more claims per 100 ped drop avg AND more variation in size of claims Less II and III and more IV and V.. Thats a substantial jump in tt at the end of a run... If I am getting same that means SDS is sucking up the difference.

    On Calypso I got X tt return..MA got all decays correct?
    On Arkadia I get same X tt return and MA and Arkadia split the same decays (unless on Arkadia they take a bigger % then Calypso) decays.

    IF SDS is added into that mix I have to say they are getting a cut from my share of tt when the ped spent is same + TT return is the same + claim count and size went up on Arkadia. So that brings me back on topic..Just how big a cut are SDS getting from the shitbird tax?
     
  14. Ace Flyster

    Ace Flyster Member

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    I am really sorry but i am struggling to see what you are implying here, maybe put imaginary numbers to it would help, for example

    This is my experience (imaginary numbers)

    Calypso, spend 100 ped in decay, get 90 ped back in tt
    Arkadia, spend 100 ped in decay, get 90 ped back in tt

    TT returns are the same, no matter where i mine, and this makes sense as it is the same game mechanics no matter where you are

    Now of that 10% in tt loss implies

    100 ped decay = 10 ped to MA and planet partners, 50% MA implies 5 ped to MA with 10% to place of origin and 40% to current location (split i am making up so let say, 10% to place of birth and 40% to current location).



    So......if i was born on calypso and decaying on calypso

    100 ped decay, 90 ped to me, 5 ped to MA, 1 ped to Calypso and 4 ped to Calypso

    So......if i was born on calupso and decaying on arkadia

    100 ped decay, 90 ped to me, 5 ped to MA, 1 ped to Calypso and 4 ped to Arkadia

    So......if i was born on arkadia and decaying on calypso

    100 ped decay, 90 ped to me, 5 ped to MA, 1 ped to Arkadia and 4 ped to Calypso

    So......if i was born on arkadia and decaying on arkadia

    100 ped decay, 90 ped to me, 5 ped to MA, 1 ped to Arkadia and 4 ped to Arkadia



    This is how i see it works, and is confirmed, and enough logs to confirm the 90%

    Could you do a similar example to show what you are trying to say....so i can get an idea of what you mean?

    Rgds

    Ace

    PS all numbers are tt returns, as mu is irrelevant in this discussion (not for you cyborg, for others reading this post)
     
  15. calemus

    calemus Member

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    cyborg
    if you use firefox you can get a plugin called lazerous to save your typed work
    no more lost work
    it's a life saver


    and seeing as how you said flame on,,,and no ones flamed for you i figured i might help a little

    flameflame,,flame flame
     
  16. Cyborg Bill

    Cyborg Bill Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    Why do you feel the need to insult me? I did not once mention MU in this discussion so why single me out like that?

    Ok lets start with the constants.

    For caly

    200 ped run
    I get 50 claims
    tt return 90%

    claim break down...
    36 clims are II
    10 claims are III
    the last 4 claims can be random size up to XII cause I rarely globaled there.

    On Arkadia

    200 ped run
    65 claims
    tt return 90%

    claim break down pre last VU...
    32 claims are II
    16 claims are III
    12 claims mix of IV and V
    5 claims are IX to XIII ( got 2 globals since I been here)

    Summary....

    More claims per 200 ped gotten.
    + Larger claims sizes gotten
    ------------------------------------------
    Higher over all tt return.

    You still with me?

    Now if I still only get 90% tt return on the same 200 ped drops but there is a siginfigantly higher over all tt return then some one is sucking up that extra since it did not make it to my ped card. If the % taken by MA and Arkadia is equal to what just MA was getting on Caly then that leaves all that extra tt return going to SDS. Sooo.. Either there is a bigger chunk taken here in decays OR it is like I said that MA and Arkadia cover the 50/50 slit on the normal decays and SDS is getting that addeed tt return as the shitbird tax.

    I cant explain it any more remedial then that. If that doesnt show what I mean then fuck it.

    Ill just stand around and suck up bandwith talking to people instead of cycling ped until MA decays and devalues it all down to nothing and closes the doors
     
  17. Ace Flyster

    Ace Flyster Member

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    Please read again, i did not single you out, i was telling everyone else that this was about tt returns and not mu's. Not for you cyborg for others. The opposite meaning of what you think

    As for the second part. It is a contradiction and this is where i do not understand. If tt return is 90% on both, how can there be a significantly higher tt return???

    I have a feeling that if i understand this part then the rest of your posts will instantly make sense

    And if you include imaginary numbers that will also help to show what you mean

    Rgds

    Ace
     
  18. kosmos

    kosmos Member

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    Hi I don't have fancy numbers or anything to show but I agree with whats been said. TT is the same at ark or calyp. In my honest humble opinion after mining for almost 3 years hit rate doesn't really correlate with TT return. If it did then places like foma and hell wouldn't work. I think hitrate has more to do with how stable your loot is going to be, basically how much you need to cycle to have a normal return. What is normal is up for debate, but it is the stated 90% tt over time. A good hitrate might be useful for things that are uncommon or rare though, but general mining I really don't think it matters.

    We don't know how sds, pp, ma etc really get our peds. I assume its from decay, auction fee, and whatever invisible cut they take off the top. I think if you want to cut ties with sds just restart a new avatar or accept you might hand over part of whatever revenue you generate to your planet of origin.
     
  19. Cyborg Bill

    Cyborg Bill Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    K lets try again.. at kindegarten level.

    for 200 ped used before on calypso I got 50 prizes.

    36 prizes were worth 3 ped each
    10 prizes were worth 7 ped each

    Giving me a total prize amount of 178 ped (roughly 90% tt back)

    Now on Arkadia with the same 200 ped used I get 65 prizes.

    32 prizes worth 3 ped each
    16 prizes worth 7 ped each
    12 prizes worth 9 ped each
    5 prizes worth 12 ped each

    Giving me a total of 376 ped in prizes earned but I still only have
    a return to me of 178 ped (roughly 90%). Where is the rest of
    the tt value that was actually gotten? That adds up to me getting 50%
    of what I actually found and the suposed decay only split is 50% shared
    among MA, Arkdia, and SDS regardless of their % to each.
     
  20. Ace Flyster

    Ace Flyster Member

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    Okay I get what u are saying now. You are implying when u get a claim that says X u are only pulling up half of the stated range for an X. I think u should check the value of the amount pulled in one claim. Against the range of the claim deed, to see if indeed it is not in the range for an X. I personally did not find any inconsistencies.

    Rgds

    Ace
     
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