1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Future of Space PvP opines?

Discussion in 'PvP' started by Dwarf Simeron Steelhammer, Aug 16, 2013.

  1. Dwarf Simeron Steelhammer

    Dwarf Simeron Steelhammer Member

    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Figured I would see if there are some opinions about the direction of SPACE and the PvP that goes on there in the near and not so near future out here.

    PLEASE do not get into the pattern of Pirate vs Non-Pirate and all that bushwa stuff....just the direction of SPACE and how PvP might be effected along with your thoughts about what can be improved or brought to the "Final Frontier".

    ***

    For example I will start it off....

    I think that the next "expansion" of space will be an introduction of DESTROYER class ships that are designed to be more "war" focused and thus, more geared for PvP combat with possibly faster drives, more armament, thicker armor etc. This will see an introduction of space parts that are higher then Mk I and a need for them so that more gun ports can be opened on ALL ships.

    With this I think there will be modifications so that the larger ships will have a greater purpose(s) along with a more focused nature..for further example...

    MS - Transport on a larger scale.
    DD - New ship class designed for combat with better and more guns but less "transport" capabilities.
    Privateer - Smaller, faster transport that can be used for "war" missions, a mix of the MS and the DD.

    With this evolution of ships and space, new strategies and such will open up.

    I think this will be released and happen around the same time the new moon opens up, the first of many such things (moons, asteroids, etc).
     
  2. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

    Messages:
    3,033
    Likes Received:
    268
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I expect it to go the other way, away from combat. Space in its current implementation largely ignores the main demographic of Entropia players. It is purely focused on PVP while most entropians avoid PVP and instead like to hunt, mine, craft, and explore. With the exception of space mobs, there is nothing else to do in space. Not it's not exactly a PVP heaven either, as the only PVP that takes place there is pirates trying to prevent travelers from getting to their destination, and to a lesser extent, travelers trying to defend themselves from said pirates. As has been discussed a hundred times on the forums over the last few years, the "epic space battles" that people once envisioned don't happen because (1) the number of people interested in space PVP is not big enough to make fleets of ships (2) it expensive, and pure ped loss and (3) it doesn't accomplish anything... there's no motivation for these battles. Even during the heyday of space piracy, the pirates could only gather 15 quads for their biggest attack and they only had that many because the pilots were paid something like 200 peds each to participate.

    So, I expect Mindark to implement more of the space features the playerbase has been requesting, like space mining, low/zero cost PVP zones, space ship instances, greater variety of vehicles, estates, and basically anything that would make space a destination rather than just the annoying and time consuming bit between planets.

    However, when I say "I expect" I don't mean I think it's probable in the near future. I don't think space is a big priority. But you never know, they could be waiting for the moon release to bring in the next space update.
     
  3. Kitch

    Kitch Member

    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    All that would be cool,

    Possibly, ability for pirates to enter MS and pvp inside??
    Space mining
    Landgrabs - over asteroids?
    Hmm - interplanetary battles :p probably not possible but would be cool

    the sky is the limit :D
     
  4. AlexSolo

    AlexSolo Member

    Messages:
    239
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    18
    as mindark stated several times that space pvp is definately wanted they will push it further.

    the initial plan was that logging off or dcing while inside a spacecraft should lead to be thrown out the ship inside a rescue pod.
    it was just not implemented for whatever reasons, prolly too special to do it at the point space was released. maybe complex to change that they would have ordered the change at crytek and they where not confident with cryteks offer or whatever.

    at all not a bad idea if the escape pod system is designed properly with a chance to the colonist to actually get away.
    like:
    the escape pod got weak protection and starts accerlerating slow and getting faster and faster.
    a pirate would have a chance to hit it but not a full guarantee to actually make it. if a pirate wont be fast enough the pod will escape and the player is brought to a escape pod harbour or space station whatever.

    at the moment space is uninteresting as it offers not really good gameplay to the masses and because of that we got that space station camping and rather boring warp mine ambushes.

    hunting in space is unattractive as alot people hunted alot spacemobs already and nothing really cool dropped. (e.g. an unlimited RK-tool or kismet or thruster or UL components to collect and stick together for a UL quad or any other rare UL stuff)

    howling mine offers a crafting terminal and alot people crafted there but there are no special space items bps.

    space mining could be a reason to make space items. involves new classes of ships or the ability to equipt more specific items to a quad.
    e.g. (just for example - no finished concept here) :
    slots on a quad which you can only use in several ways. a quad equipting a mining laser cant equipt a hunting laser. additionally a quad which got a mining laser can equipt a afterburner which burns alot more oil but gives a chance to escape while a quad equipting a hunting laser can also equipt a tool to slow down a target but cant equipt a afterburner. the slowdown tool must be shot accurate as it got a slow reload. while the after burner has a faster reload but the effect wont last long and wont push the quad directly out of shooting range.

    for me space pvp should be more of a tactical card game. lay your cards right. you can attack but the other one will have a counter for that.

    as soon more playable content arrives it will make more sense for a pirate to strife around and be active in terms of searching around. you will see more players in space and more pvp in midspace while there will be more reason for a economy inside space as well.

    if we look serious at that space station camping thing, can we really call it pvp if a player is sitting inside a privateer camping at a station and as soon someone leaves the planet suddenly a quad attacker appears from the deep and would normally never have seen the traveller as the quad was completely out of sight (no triangle visible).

    also for a propper pvp area the returns on a shot down target without loot should be looked at. it would make sense to return less than what it has cost to shot down a target and every now and then someone will get a hof or ath like it is in hunting.

    for non pvp content in space i already posted some ideas about suddenly happening incidents.
    someone who is flying in space suddenly gets a message from the ships computer "toxic area spotted". if you fly into the area its non pvp and you suddenly see an old shipwreck you can enter to explore for tools, wires or rare components to craft a special L ship or UL ones (super rare) and such. it will cost you to cut it out of the ship with an laser cut tool or such and loot the item then.

    or like scanning a gas cloud for a chance to find something. could all vary randomly. would bring excitement while flying. like on enterprise. "captains log startime CV34-Vcd-45-f - theres something in mid space glowing red - as we dont know anything we just fly over to have a look".

    space is for me running in too much routine. just plain static. too empty. it needs more random appearing stories to share in community. "guess what just happened!!! I've been on the way from RT to the mining area and then suddenly-----"

    thats what i think about that. action is needed since long time now.
     
  5. Spike Black

    Spike Black Active Member

    Messages:
    295
    Likes Received:
    55
    Trophy Points:
    28
    The pods were either an after thought or PvP someone actually stopped them implementing it. Space and EU had / has a random disconnect issue for many and loosing connection and finding yourself in a pod through no action of your own would have most people unwilling to risk it even in a MS.

    The other issue is that more space development of any sort puts them into direct competition with their client PPs. A few of us suggested space be broken up into different areas for each planet with gates linking them, this way each PP is in charge of the space surrounding them leaving MA as purely a platform provider. This would also make it easier to add new planets without having to move the existing ones around.

    You could specific areas set aside for pvp but you would need a reason to go there, rare space ores or mobs but the revenue would need to be split differently e.g. 50/50 between MA and the players birth planet.

    Personally I think the whole way space was designed was flawed from the start. The big ships weren't needed at all, they should have had 5-6 player shuttles with the larger ones a few years down the line. More people in space in their own craft making space feel like a place you need to be rather than forced to be but then this wouldn't have got them a nice wodge of cash from the sales of MS and their upgrades.

    But they need to improve areas where players can hide or lose pirates, debris / asteroid fields or nebulae. It's like playing hide and seek in field atm. Fixing some exploits might help as well, removing strafe from ships might help with the speed boost from it. I don't remember playing X-Wing and thinking I could really use the ability to fly side ways. Taking a note from most space combat games there should a way to fly much faster but at the loss of defensive / offensive capability. Fly twice as fast but no shields or weapons, any pirate using would catch up but would leave themselves completely defenseless as well.
     
  6. Cyborg Bill

    Cyborg Bill Well-Known Member Pro Users

    Messages:
    1,218
    Likes Received:
    141
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Space is Mindarks largest fail to date. They didn't think it thru as usual before they half assed implemented it in secret because they know the NORMAL thinking part of the community is against being robbed by someone. Now that it has been shoved down the player bases throats they are finding ways in their sad little minds they think will make players use space but in the end is only hurting the various planetary economies with the only one as usual left on sold ground being caly in that regard. They (even with Jan Jr.s INFINATE gaming expertise) continue to press the pvp action regardless of the fact they cant police nor control let alone even have knowledge of half the hax being used out there.

    The only evolution you will see in space is something that first and foremost brings MA some fast cash from someone with more money then common sense. 2nd Looks good enough they can twist a media story behind it to try and draw more people away from other games they are copying from. 3. Keep focus on the community to funnel more people from other planets on Caly do to its overwhelming advantages it gets.

    Mindarks motivations are extremely easy to predict as it has always been. Pay attention to the real changes in game and not the hype surrounding them and you can draw the pictures with crayons its so easy to see.
     
  7. Fifth

    Fifth Member

    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Looking at the ratio: online accounts / avatars traveling between planets - one can say Space has become normal part of the game and is used quite a lot.
    Note, this doesn't say if majority of those ppl are happy or stomping their feet screaming curses nonstop.
    It just says despite all the bugs and balance issues the Space still somehow works and is not falling. ;)


    +1 for "Low Cost PvP Areas" (similar to Fort events planetside). If i could train my maneuvering and aim without having the taste of $$ in my mouth every shot... maybe i would find out i'm the great piratekiller? (mhmm) or a good pirate? (ouch!) althou most likely i would only find out that i suck at 3D space manouvering, can't hit a barn's wall, and that's it. lol

    Next step (after everybody who's interested could find this out), implement those "longer/morecostly/safe(r)" and "shorter/cheaper/dangerous" routes between planets. Not easy to balance with MS and all, i know... But i can't see space going anywhere without providing a realistic chance for every player (i mean, again, those who are interested) to do something by himself.

    As opposed to: being a prey, being a passenger.

    [HR][/HR]
    Imagine 3 "gates" at the Space Station: "Dangerous", "Risky" and "Safe".
    Some ppl are boarding a huge Space Destroyer, you are flying your quadwing down to the Safe gate, and then u notice player X (not a pirate!) emerging and boldly heading to the gate "Dangerous"... Wouldn't you be curious if you could be like him one day? ;)

    And if u a player who only considers economic aspects, or a seasoned vet who can take care of himself on planetside PvP with ease. Consider this, if some playstyles are not possible (or are "off limits" for EU, for whatever reason) - this means EU can't expand to every possible direction.
    This is clearly a sign of weakness, isn't it? It could mean one day a competitor would emerge who will make it possible where EU has failed. Standstill is just another word for degeneration...
    In the big picture it's our investments and assets on the stake here, regardless of how u personally might like or dislike, use or not use every single feature this Universe could provide. Now or at some point later down the road.
     
  8. AlexSolo

    AlexSolo Member

    Messages:
    239
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    18
    when reading the annual report of 2012 i believe that the next step is that logoff and dc is changed so that passengers are vulnerable targets when floating in space. on the other side the cost of laserfire in space will sink (cost per shot) leading to an increase of attacks on transport ships what leads to a raise on warp prices because of more defense cost. due to the raise of warp prices people will warp in larger groups what makes the attack more lucrative. battle and action arrives.

    spacecraft managers will adept some will look to sell and buy land deeds instead.

    the report indicates that risk free travel and costs to fire are adressed in developement.

    can be it arrives in 2014 already.

    further content prolly at a later date. implementing too much makes the content too common in a too short timeframe.

    community got nice and creative ideas though.
     
  9. Xandra

    Xandra Active Member Pro Users

    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    48
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Hi,

    My opinion:

    • All space as a fully lootable PvP area is a bad idea. I'd assume that the vast majority of participants will agree here. It's a pain, and a nuisance, it's all but the fun, entertainment and challenge we'd expect from a video game.
      .
    • I understand that there's a need to keep the different planet economies separated and protected. But doing it by enforcing the unavoidable danger of getting fully looted, in an RCE where every piece of Lyst is an equivalent to "Real Cash", is a bad idea. Especially considering the lousy way MA handles the support cases complaining about exploiting this feature.
      .
    • Space is no fun at all, for me. It's slow, time consuming, boring, just badly coded. Whoever once played a combat orientated FlightSim like Falcon will understand what I mean. Feeling like a snail in concrete in your quad that doesn't provide any useful HUD at all, whoever would like to use such a poor parody of a real FlightSim?
      .
    • IMHO the current implementation of space isn't working at all:
      • For sheer planet tourists (w/o lootable cargo) it's boring, and still too risky (getting shot down by a camping pirate over and over, for ransom).
      • For adventurous pilots it's boring, too, and a pain due to lousy implementation and ongoing exploits.
      • For traders it's boring, too, but rather safe due to MS (where some special ppl earn their money with).

    I don't think that this helps the game a lot. Space itself isn't attractive to many participants, in fact, it's a nuisance to many more. Even simply traveling from one planet to the other can be a great frustration, depending of who is camping your entry to space.

    There's so many good ideas already made on the forums how to improve it ...
    This one I like a lot:
    Let's imagine how this could be done:
    • "Dangerous": You'll get thrown into the 1 space server where fully lootable PvP is enabled. Goal is to cross it and reach the gate (corresponding to your destination). Basically like now, but on a high speed server cluster, with local components on any continent at least.
      And a ways better flight interface.
      No (or lowest) costs for this, and high threat, low-aggro space monsters, too. And rather low flight times (5mins. max) between gates.
      .
    • "Risky": You'll enter a space server with not-lootable PvP zones. These are clearly labeled and require a "cheap space toxic shot", available for 1.5 PED at any TT. Should you get shot down there, the killer would receive 1 PED in random stackables as loot.
      In these PvP zones there'd be medium threat space mobs, too, low aggro.
      There'd be routes outside the PvP zones, with low threat, high aggro space mobs. A quad would easily outrun them, with a VTOL it would require good skill, gear and weaponry to survive.
      Low (or modest) costs to enter, and modest flight times to the next gate (15 min. max.).
      On a normal server, but with a ways better flight interface.
      .
    • "Safe": A space for the carebears. No PvP at all. Only lowest threat, not aggro space mobs.
      Costs might include the value of your load in the calculation (No stackables = low or modest fee, with stackables a reasonable fee), flight times might reach 30 minutes to the next gate.
      A way to get accustomed to space w/o risks and big costs.
      And for sure, a ways better flight interface.

    I think, this way space could be much more challenging. MS and such would still have a value, space mining could be easily added to this, and the participants would have more ways and possibilities, as well as incentives, to use space. It would hinder ways less, and add new challenges and reasons/ possibilities to skill up.

    Space could become a welcome part of the game, instead of being the nasty nuisance for most participants as it is today.

    My two PEC's only, for sure.


    PS: I want to empathize that I have never been shot down even once. I don't whine here. I only lament of the most poor implementation of a game feature that could be such exciting!
     
  10. billairboy

    billairboy Member

    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I actually believe MA have space as a big priority. I also believe, as you are saying, that they will priorities filling the space with more features like the ones you listed. Space mining, or something similar, would be the number one thing i would like too see in space. The number two thing I would like to see is more customizable space ships, like the possibility to add more armor/protection, but instead loose some of the speed. Things would get a bit more fun and interesting if we had more variation.
     
  11. billairboy

    billairboy Member

    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I not so sure about that statement. In a resent poll at Calypso forum, more than half answered "Yes" on the queastion,
    "Should Space be Lootable PVP - Yes or No?"

    http://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/f...250924-Should-Space-be-Lootable-PVP-Yes-or-No

    So I see very little evidence that the "vast majority" would agree on that pvp is a bad idea.
     
  12. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

    Messages:
    3,033
    Likes Received:
    268
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I'm just going by their past record. Trade terminals, mothership/privateer guns, cyrene training grounds, hermits, etc. etc. They address space issues at the speed of frozen molasses... therefore I conclude space is not a big priority for them. Maybe they're ready to put it on the front burner, but I'd have to see some updates before I'd believe it. It's at the point where it's mostly working now (with the big exception of guns) but not much content. I'm hoping the next platform update will contain a huge space update including the moon, but I'm not going to get overly hopeful.
     
  13. Cyborg Bill

    Cyborg Bill Well-Known Member Pro Users

    Messages:
    1,218
    Likes Received:
    141
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Bottom line is PVP space just promotes more criminal activity in EU. It was bad enough when you had lootable pvp when it was just Calypso. Now every Xbox queen with no morals is showing up thinking they will get rich quick by running the same pvp hax n mods that are used in every pvp game online. And don't even bother trying that "I don't cheat crap".. if yer a pvp'r you run something just to be able to step in the arena to box. PVP in EU is stealing no matter how you look at it and MA promoting this only shows how skievy they really are as they have no conscious already with manipulating markets, changing what ever they please whether ethical or not.

    EU used to be a unique game with a great sci fi feel to it back when I started. Now its just a garbage can of copied shit from other games that has been half ass restructured to suit MA's greed and not the gamers play. Making it easier for shitbirds to get ahead while everyone else struggles to stay even with MA robbin us blind at every chance is not going to help the future outlook for the game
     
  14. OZtwo

    OZtwo Active Member

    Messages:
    297
    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    28

    Never going to happen but it would be nice if we could fire all the new management at MA and bring back the Project Entropia team. A lot still don't know that a while back when this all started was about the time the company handed over the CEO title to the new person I can't think up his name at the moment. (now is that bad or what). We can only hope that Arkadia will take off big time and at the end the A-Team will own MA! (well, they first need to make all items tradable first).
     

Share This Page