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Do you get any message if you get looted?

Discussion in 'Space' started by endy, Mar 5, 2012.

  1. endy

    endy Active Member Pro Users

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    If you carry stackables and get shot down in Space, will you get a message saying what goods have been stolen from you?
     
  2. Milena

    Milena Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    No you dont endy...you have to look in your inventory if you lost something ...
     
  3. endy

    endy Active Member Pro Users

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    OK, thanks
     
  4. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    That's why many people bring a nova fragment or a dung, as an indicator of looting. Personally, I think it's more demotivating to pirates when they get "no loot" at all, so now I tend to leave even the novas at home.
     
  5. endy

    endy Active Member Pro Users

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    I agree, space scum doesn't deserve anything at all, what it deserves is real life prison time for larceny... and for that matter, MA deserves a lawsuit for endorsing criminal activities and larceny in a computer game.

    Anyway, I never have any stackables on me, it's just a question passengers ask sometimes...
     
  6. KMax

    KMax Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    Not that I disagree but one would have to get looted for quit a bit to make it worth a lawsuit and have it fail to prove a point. MA would win on the genuine fact that it is a game and the stuff stolen has no real world value at the time of the looting and also MA issuing a big public message TWICE stating you will be looted before entering lootable space won't help you win any cases either. You absolutely agreed to the terms and conditions of the game just like other things in real life where you think you could sue but can't because you agreed absolutely to the terms without any force at all to do so, boxing for example you can't sue the other boxer for assault because you legally agreed to get your ass kick by him before you got your ass kicked by him. Remember there is absolutely no reason you have to carry stackables in space you can always wait for someone else to do it and buy what you need from them.

    However you may find a sympathetic judge and jury that will also defend that your fake possessions are of intrinsic significance to you and that was taken from you leaving you emotionaly scared. Also helps if you get the pirate to assault you in real life and force you to go into space with all that loot so it can be stolen. Although the assault will be overlooked in the trial being that's not the important part.

    Would be nice but I doubt anything will ever happen in terms of MA and pirates being charges with any legal actions. The game pretty much covers them from any default charges, unless you find a loophole. Saying I was ripped of just won't cut it.
     
  7. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    I think taking loot into lootable space is a bit like sitting down at a poker table. You may feel upset that you lost money, and might feel that your opponent stole it from you, but the law only cares when the house is cheating or something like that. In that case, it's real, solid money, not just virtual money. The only difference--and this bothers me about lootable PVP in this game--is that it's too easy to accidentally carry loot into space, in contrast to the poker game where you can't "accidentally" sit down and play. I would say that a good percentage of loot that's stolen in space was taken there without knowledge of the traveler, usually because they forgot to scroll down in their inventory or something like that. This, IMO, is not fair play. Mindark really ought to give the pilot AND passengers a warning message saying how much TT value of lootable times they're carrying.
     
  8. rick_janson

    rick_janson Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    I could go along with that. Twice when I've gone to Calypso I've double and triple checked the two lootable tabs using the compress button.. I'll go to a tab and click the compress a few times, go to the other and press it a few times, back to the first, etc. And twice, doing that, I've ended up with 50+ PED TT materials when I arrived on Calypso (once after logging in on Calypso, once not).

    So yeah, I could definitely agree with that. Though I don't know if it's been a glitch or whatever, so I don't know that that would actually fix it. At least in those instances. But I check multiple times before I leave and then after I arrive now, just for making extra sure. If I end up arriving with something, it goes in storage until I'm sure I'm going to bring it back.

    But I also have to go along with what K-Max was saying.. It's part of the game and you agree to the terms every single time you log in. The players have no grounds for a lawsuit. No, lootable space isn't going anywhere. You just have to be careful what you take and how much and when and how you take it. For example, if you can't afford to lose it (but have to take it), go on the Normandie and use the teleporter to get to the planet.

    If you don't need it where you're going and can't afford to lose it, leave it where it is. If everyone follows that, they'll be in good shape. There are other methods you can use to avoid dying, but in the end it's still you risking it and much as we hate it, MindArk can't be held liable. They made sure of that.
     
  9. Beanie Bugbear Adamski

    Beanie Bugbear Adamski Member

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    Its here, its not going anywhere, time to just deal with it and move on. fight back have some fun, its a game after all
     
  10. Xandra

    Xandra Active Member Pro Users

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    Hi,

    Have to disagree. The stuff stolen HAS an RL monetary value ($[TT/10], guaranteed by MA). This is the difference here.

    And the warning doesn't matter. Police is warning you all the time not to have stuff on your seats when you park your cabriolet with open hood - but stealing the camera from the back seat is still stealing, and still you'll go to jail for it when caught.

    Besides, there might be terms and agreements that we have to accept that won't stand a chance before court, depending of the country we live in.

    I had a long talk with a lawyer specialized in internet jurisdiction, coincidentally I met such recently. Results in short:

    • The main problem would be to get a law suit started at all. Many ppl at the courts don't know much about todays internet, and will laugh at you when you complain to be robbed in a computer game.
      .
    • The case itself would be indisputable theft, or even robbery. And aid to, in case of MA. She'd expect a lot of smoke grenades from MA's lawyers, disputing the RL monetary value, pointing to "It's just a game", depending of the judges knowledge this could even succeed.
      Would be rather hard to fight such a trial, but it wouldn't be without a chance for success, or at least a juicy compensation in a settlement.
      .
    • After talking a bit about the game she became interested in something different: money laundering, and organized crime. I had told her about the pirate Soc's, and her point was that these are organized, yep. And that the system would perfectly fit to money laundering, and who knows to what cartels these Soc's would be related?
      Jurists are strange. She developed a plan to paint the pirates as suspicious to be related to the drug cartels, doing their business in game, aided by MA that is offering such opportunities. Brought to court in certain US states this might cause quite some problems for MA.

      If I'd be interested, I should mail her. She'd knew colleagues in the US interested in such cases, and they'd surely find a local citizen to start the claim ...
    Have to say that this was a long night in the bistro, including some bottles of tasty liquids. Thus some things might be slightly exaggerated, or far fetched. But I know, too, that she isn't a beginner. She's representing some quite well-known names, and is earning a vast multiple of what me is bringing home ...

    Judge for yourself, and have fun!
     
  11. Oboy

    Oboy Active Member

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    Just do what I did, If you dont like the game / space, Quit. Once MA realizes that our wallets aren't going to be open to the pirates, or them anymore, maybe they will get the point.

    I've been exploited in space with a 1 shot bug to be looted, MA responded telling me they are working on it, and closed my case.

    Case closed alright.... I'll withdraw my ped and wait it out. Thats the only message MA will understand.

    GL to you all.
     
  12. KikkiJikki

    KikkiJikki Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    But you keep logging in...

    In any case, you don't have to be happy with all aspects of the game to enjoy the rest. If you enjoy playing then keep doing it. If you don't enjoy it then find something else to do.
     
  13. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    This made me look at the EULA to see whether MA guarantees the TT value we have in game. Now I didn't read everything in there, just did a few searches on relevant words, so if anyone has found more relevant sections, please share it.

    And here is where they say what they ARE liable for ("if acknowledged" is the key phrase):


    True, but the scenario is a little different than EU. In the case of the car, it is common knowledge that your car can get "looted", but it's not an accepted activity or part of the official "rules" of the neighborhood. Looting in a lootable PVP zone is part of the official "rules" of EU, since Mindark makes the rules of the game.

    That makes sense... you can only take legal action against a casino if you can show that there is illegal activity within the management itself or that the management is allowing 3rd parties to perform illegal activities that are not within the generally-accepted scope of the establishment. I.e. Taking someone's money in a casino is not illegal as long as it's done within the accepted rules of the particular game. If the house cheats, it's illegal. A customer picking pockets in the restroom is illegal. Applied to EU, getting loot stolen by a pirate is not illegal, it's part of the accepted rules. However, it would be illegal for an MA employee to give inside information to pirates so they can find you and loot you.

    And of course so much depends on whether the EULA would stand up as a valid agreement in court. And as you say, courts have been very hesitant to come to firm decisions on this issue.
     
  14. rick_janson

    rick_janson Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    The fact is, it says all of that and you agree to it every time you log in. Plain and simple.
     
  15. Svarog

    Svarog Member

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    I'm not sure what's more demotivating - a no loot or a 1 piece of dung :p

    While I'm not a pirate myself and will never try it (because of the attitude of community, in the first place), I believe it's one of the greatest recent additions to the gameplay.

    Without pirates the space will be boring, not to say useless - why to spend so much time in flight if it's safe and can't change anything for you anyway? While I'm afraid to be killed in space I also enjoy the adrenalin it brings and if managed to get to the other side in one piece I feel a way more intense joy than if it'd be a safe trip. It reminds me of tp runs of my younger days, on foot amidst hordes of red dots.

    Also those who afraid to lose their trading goods to pirates should not forget whom they should thank for the markup on those goods. Without pirates the MU will be equal to the second decimals on all planets (which, again, makes space meaningless).

    Of course, if you want to hunt people in space without public reproach you always can be a knight and hunt down pirates (cheers to JBK for the cool event!), but apparently for this to be possible there should be pirates is space.
     
  16. unicorn

    unicorn Active Member Pro Users

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    Since Entropia is a RCE For me Space with 100% pvp zone is comparable with the Street in Real Life. If i want to go from A to B I have to Leave my House. And when i do that i Set my Feet into a area where its theoretical possible that i get Attacked anytime by Someone no matter Where i am. But If I get robbed Depends on if Someone Else Chooses to attack me and Not by the fact that i am in a Street neither on the Type of transportation I use.

    So the Argument "you knew Thats pvp4 cause you got warning so its your fault" is for me nifty when it comes to stealing stuff.

    "a Woman got robbed in New York on the streets lately - so what it was the womans own fault why does she go to work?" looool

    The reason why People get robbed is Always to Track to the persona who decides to do that or also to Someone who Supports that.
    And in the World we live Always the One who does the Action which is against Law gets sued for the Action he did.

    If you are caught by Police cause of any Action you did its up to you then to cooperate with them and deliver them Info about middlesman or the Big ones to get Yourself Out or a lower result on you.

    But dont Tell them you did it Because you have no Money to Pay your own expenses (Depo to Play) they will sue you Full Force cause you could have done honest activity instead. The Attacker has the Choice to attack and Not the Victim to be attacked in the Street.

    And if People Tell me that stealing things from People is legal cause mindark created a tech Platform with some Eula which makes it a lawless Zone every Lawyer and Court will Start to Look Deep into it. No Courtyard Likes to hear that Someone behaves like god and Thinks he can create his own laws. The Eula will Hold 10 minutes max in Court i Bet it. Cause a Eula cannot relace the Law. Nowhere ist can.

    The only Thing on what depends if Someone gets his Lawyer on such ingame Case or Not might be the value of the goods which Where Stolen and if the afford to get a Lawyer on it will bring more back than what it Cost to Fight a Fight which has no Other reference Cases Yet. So Someone who get robbed of 15ped would rather Not make such.

    But still there are People ingame who have the Funds to make such step. I believe in success.

    Ask the question in the Court if we are living in a Time a Company can set itself higher than the Law and create whatever they want to make the Courts unable to Defend Human rights or the Law...
     
  17. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    I just thought I should point out that in the real world, it's still a crime to steal from a thief. So those who truly believe that lootable PVP space is under the jurisdiction of RL law-enforcement organizations shouldn't be looting pirates either.
     
  18. KikkiJikki

    KikkiJikki Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    I've my views pretty clear regarding ethics of piracy. However, its pointless to suggest any real world legal recourse, whether through criminal or civil law processes. Piracy functions as an intentional design feature of what any court would see as a game. The only realistic way to do deal with any issues you have with this part of EU is within the game itself.

    Regards,
    KikkiJikki
     

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