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Dilema over skills......

Discussion in 'Skills' started by Cyborg Bill, May 28, 2011.

  1. Cyborg Bill

    Cyborg Bill Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    Well...

    I made the initial decission since there is no confirmation regarding if the original planet you were born on gets a piece of your expendatures regardless of where you are to chip Trina out and start a brand new ava on Arkadia.

    I wanted to do this simply to not aid the idiots that treated us like crap for so long no matter what company they work for at this point. Its a matter of principle to me that I give my money to someone who treats me with some sembalance of respect. In the Entropia Universe that seems like Arkadia is the only place willing to treat its customers with respect.

    That being said... Today before I logged out I loaded the skill scanner...Captured my skills and logged into the optimiser site. Needless to say I am steaming mad. I am not going to vent here as I will give the same considerations to Dave and the Arkadia staff as they have given us so far and not go nuts here.

    We all know that since VU 10 a major effort by MA to devalue as much of players holdings has been in full force. Starting with the moronic idea to have events with 2x and 3x skill gains for the lazy ass Wow children to feel they got something for free. I did the quick and easy chip out to 0 setting to look at what I needed in ESI to pillage Trina and start a new Arkadian. The cost to chip her skills out came to 27k+ peds. I was pretty impressed that I had gained that much skill to cost that much even with ESI the lowest I have seen. That is until I looked at the place that showed total skill value.

    MA royally jammed any possibilty to salvage any investment into our avatars from skills sooooo far up the darkside my head is spinning. The cost to chip out my skills is over double the value of their total. Yes I can go tweek actual current percent values and gain some. This will in no way shape or form come even close to breaking even.

    Soo just a word of warning to any and all who play... If you are thinking down the line you can recoup some of your money by selling your skills FORGET IT.

    I cant imagine after that much loss in value of skills and the further devaluation of gear now and the added fees to actually get your money in your bank that you would even be at zero dollars and not go even further down the crapper trying to get the money home.

    I now fully believe inside info has been passed and that is why we are seeing so many of the old "Uber" gear being sold off before MA makes even that worth nothing. I thought something was mad fisshy when all these people selling that gear all of the sudden wanted to "open their options" for other ways to play. They are full of crap and only gettin out why the gettin is good.
     
  2. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    Sorry but i'm not seeing your dilemma. Is it to chip out and start over or not? I would say don't do it as it will take a lot of time to get back where you are at now. And let's face it without MA/FPC there would be no planet Arkadia neither :)

    Skills decrease in value which is logical since they are 'free' to get, and everything that is free to get will drop in value. People selling uber gear know the prices will drop more as more uber gear becomes available with each new planet partner.

    Prices drop, and game becomes more affordable for newcomers, only a good thing in my opinion. And there are still skills worth selling (mostly crafting and defensive skills) if you are chipping out, but ofc as time passes those will drop too.
     
  3. Cyborg Bill

    Cyborg Bill Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    The entire reason for the chip out was to pass them on to a new ava I want to start on Arkadis simply so none of what I spend goes to the shitbirds that treated us like crap for so long on the original planet. Since no one wants to confirm nor deny that the planet an avatar was born on gets a percentage of spendings no matter where that avatar is I decided I wanted to ensure what I spend goes to a deserving company.
     
  4. Faye

    Faye Member Pro Users

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    Euh isnt your avartar born on genesis ? Which is MindArk space station ? Frankly I cant see the problem here too other then it is a fiction thing in your head ?
     
  5. Cyborg Bill

    Cyborg Bill Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    Genisis wasnt around when I was born. I spawned for the first time in New Oxford on Calypso. Soo according to some FPC/ SEE and whomever they will be next month might be getting a percentage of what I spend in game. I do not wish them to have any of it for the way they have for so long not been as supportive and forthcoming as a buisness should be with their customers. I dont support crap buisnesses IRL and I wont in the virtual realms (to the best of my ability) Frankly if it were possible MA would be outta the loop as well since they are the ones starting the trend of what happens over there. That is why I have voted with a lack of external ped getting added to my card for as long as I have. Evidently that was not enough to wake them up. Why would I want to continue to pay them for a service I will no longer use (planet Calypso) by using an avatar that gives them money for nothing?
     
  6. Jonny

    Jonny Member

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    Where did you get the information that an avatar created on a specific planet gives that planet a share of its income? Im curious to see this official post somewhere.
     
  7. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    If you feel so strongly about it i would suggest chipping out the skills that actually have any markup, and forget about the rest. I just hope you don't have a lot of skills atm, seems like such a waste.
     
  8. Noodles

    Noodles Member

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    Trying to understand your dilemma, and not doing so well. The math...is it...

    ESI market value needed: 27k PED
    Market value of skills: 40.5k PED
    Net income if you sold all skills: +13.5k PED (40.5k - 27k)

    So your skills are worth a net of +13.5k PED?

    Or what are you saying exactly, I'm confused. Are you saying that skills aren't worth what they were worth three years ago?

    You can't be saying that the market value of your skills is only 13.5k, and therefore you would in fact lose 13.5k if you chipped out and sold them. I've never seen a skill worth less than the ESI it's printed on...though some may not be worth the effort (e.g. marksmanship maybe, due to the 10% loss).

    Maybe I can't read the chip optimizer correctly. My interpretation...

    Green Text: ESI TT size you get after 10% loss.
    Light grey in (): Market % of skill
    Dark grey: Net proceeds (profit) after selling skill for market value and subtracting market ESI price (ESI size in this calculation is (Green Text)/0.9 to include 10% loss).

    So you'd need a lot of negative Dark grey's for a net loss. And the optimizer seems to ignore negatives, I assume its way of telling you not to chip out that skill.

    Edit: Also, the big blue 'Total PEDs' looks to be your total profit.
     
  9. Cyborg Bill

    Cyborg Bill Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    You read the post wrong bro...My total skill value according to the optimiser BEFORE chipping is only 12.8k ped total (roughly 13k) NOT 12.8k ped ABOVE the cost to chip out

    Before the skill events I was at 125k total skills and they were valued at 28,689 ped accrding to optimiser
    NOW at 177k skills they are worth a total of 12,800 ish ped.
    50k MORE skills with a net worth of less then half what they were prior to the skill events and the continuation of our devaluation.

    Therefore the cost of 27k ped to buy ESI to chip out 12.8k ped of skills with a 10% loss of skill added to that is for sure not in my best interest.
    So that still leaves the original dilema of how to NOT give Calyspo a % of my finances even tho I will be a permanat resident on Arkadia.

    I am just putting this info out into the public that might not be aware of where they stand in this department when calculating their values for what ever reasons. Some like me were planning to use the skills and their values as sort of a savings account for what it costs to play the game. Having them devalued this badly seriously pisses me off and makes me feel more like a shill then I have ever felt since I joined EU.

    As an after thought this makes me even more mad as what I have chipped in to get over humps and when close to ulocks has cost me more then what the entire total of my skills is now worth from all this leaveing me even further backward then what I originally thought.
     
  10. Noodles

    Noodles Member

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    Ok, think I've got it. A few years ago, you could have chipped out and sold all your skills and made a net profit of 28,689 PED. Today, you could chip out even more skills and make a net profit of 12,800 PED. (Chipping optimizer shows net profit if you were to chip and sell, as I understand it. It does not show, for example, the market value of 5000 rifle points. But that could be calculated by multiplying ESI size by the (percentage).)

    So your dilemma is that skills have been devalued. Indeed they have. You'd still make over a thousand dollars by chipping out now though, so I guess that's better than nothing. Transferring to another avatar is quite the expense, though, since you're only buying the ESI's and not reselling them full of skills. That seems to be the real dilemma. I guess you could sell Trina's skills, then use the thousand dollar proceeds to strategically buy some skills for the new avatar, ending up with significantly less than 170k total skills.

    Edit: Yes, I think one of us is reading the optimizer data incorrectly. And with the best of intentions, I'm pretty sure it's you. At least I hope it's you, otherwise I'm depressed also.
     
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  11. chevrons

    chevrons Member

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    No, I'm afraid I don't believe you are interpreting this correctly either. My total skill value is 160% of the ESI cost, meaning my net value is 60% positive. It was much higher 2 years ago, true.

    Doesn't MA get say 50% of your decay wherever you are, you are talking only of how the remaining 50% is split?
     
  12. Jod

    Jod Well-Known Member

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    I guess I don't understand the problem either :huh:

    There is 2 reasons to chipout...

    1.To sell the filled Chip and let the buyer absorb the ESI cost.
    In which case regardless if it costs 27k or 127k to put all your skills on chips you will always get that back with profit as long as you get more than the MU price of the ESI and enough to cover the 10% loss.

    2.To put the skills on to another avatar that you own and take the costs of the ESI as a loss.
    This has always been an expensive exercise.Nothing has changed in this matter in 4 years.ESI have been in the 600-800% range for the last 4 years+.The only thing thats changed is that you have more skills now,so you actually hurt yourself by taking part in those 2x and 3x skill events.

    On the point of skill values...
    Skills had been dropping in value long before the skill bonus events and continued to do so long after.MA didn't do anything to specifically drop skill values.Skill prices are determined by the players with the importance they give them.
    Have you considered how many players play the 'skill to play' game?
    They know exactly what it costs them to gain certain skills and they look for the ones that bring profit after selling them and exploit it till the market is saturated then they move on to the next profitable skill.You can see this has been done to many skills over the years(Bio,Explosives,Some Melee)

    Its not the big conspiracy you think it is,It's just 'smart' players exploiting the earning opportunities till they dry up.

    Without a growing user base it doesn't take too long before the supply out weighs the demand and the prices drop.All it takes is for one person with a few 100k skills to chip out on top of the skill farmers (and we've seen plenty,as there always will be in every MMO)and you get a flood of skills on to the market.
    Simple fact is that the 10% skill drain is not large enough to keep the value high in a shrinking userbase.
    We need more people wanting those skills or we need to increase the drain(entropy).
     
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  13. Leona

    Leona Member

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    Trina, learn to read the values from chipping optimizer or simple post a screen shot and people will explain. The value shown as Net value already considers the esis and the 10% skill loss.
     
  14. Lee DeLioncourt

    Lee DeLioncourt Arkadian Outrider Platinum Member

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    Hi Trina,
    I only read your thread for the first time today, and I do understand your dilema. I have been wondering as well about the whole question of 'planet of birth', simply from the point of view that anyone who started before new planets arrived have no choice now in what PP they will be giving an automatic percentage of revenue to based on account creation location. I asked awhile back, and we do now have an official answer on that question Here just fyi. Good luck whatever you decide to do.
     
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  15. lokiscamaro

    lokiscamaro Member

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    so.. are you planning on selling now?.............if you are transferring skill to a new avatar...you shouldnt care what your skill value is, if they are just going into a new avatar.

    i understand your desire to get away from calypso, if it means that much to you, just move. dont look back, and dont worry about skill value until you are actually going to sell them.
     
  16. Hyssch

    Hyssch Active Member

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    I've sold-out-skills my fair share. First it happened at 2006 after 1½ year extensive skilling. Simply, got bored. No goals left, I thought... I got the gear, well over medium HP and guns that were considered being "cool" at the time, I could hunt Atrox Dominants with no armor and min. fapping and that was the time when they did full dmg on every hit.

    Second time was right in the middle of the "ESI/Skill-nerf" VU... can't remember the year or the VU exactly (I'm writing this on a mining run while writing this and running with IRL liquid amps! :p so forgive me... just something to do while extracting my claim) and that was the worst possible time to chip-out and sell ones skills. But I did it anyways and started a new noob-life with nice attributes (most over 70) but no skills to back them up. But I was a happy sweater those days. Thought skills wouldn't matter and sold all excess skills I gained that I didn't need back then.

    The last bigger chip-out/sell-out was... uhm.. was it over a year ago, then I quite PE once and for all and also asked MA Support to delete/terminate my old ava, of which they also did. I was quite pissed off and disappointed the way they treated their players and that skills didn't mean that much on the output, no matter what.

    Time passed...

    Then I noticed, Arkadia was only a few weeks of getting online. Made a fresh new ava with 1 skill-point in every skill and haven't regretted. This time I really enjoy playing this game. I've learned my mistakes, never gonna chip-in or out. I just fool around and have fun and really happy to notice that this time around the Dev.team of this planet takes players seriously and listens to them.

    So, even if You really are that pissed of the way MA treats You and the lack of being regognized for all the hard work You've done for Your original ava, I can understard that... fully. That's one of the reasons I've quit this game so many times :)

    But no need to sell out completely. Just move in here with us... to Arkadia... enjoy the skills You have and forget MA... Arkadia Dev.team is different than I or You have used to, while playing on Calypso/Amethera/Chrystal Palace/CND for as You've noticed already, they _do_ listen to their customers (us, players).

    As You've seen on this forum, they DO care about who's running around on their planet and DO get involved with players. So... please, don't chip-out, but if You do, I fully understand why. I've done it a few times over in my past. Not for the same reasons perhaps, but been there and done that, never-the-less.

    I hope You get what ever it is that You're looking for atm, but even if it means starting a new ava with 1 skill-point in every skills > Arkadia is the place to start playing again ;)


    Best regards,


    -- Hyssch --
     
  17. Dab

    Dab Member

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    Nice that they answered, but this really doesn't solve the delimna since they don't say what the percentage is that goes to the planet of origin.

    If it's 1%, it's not really worth it to chip out and transfer skills to a new avatar. If it's 20% then maybe a different story.
     
  18. Cyborg Bill

    Cyborg Bill Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    Kim|MindArk
    MindArk Official

    permalink
    THIS is exactly why I want to switch..

    FPC/ SEE have not done shit one to advertise Calypso while they were in control. The only real advertising was done by Neverdies self promotion and a few trade shows attended by MA. Dave and the Arkadia staff has so far done nothing BUT advertise and promote the game.

    Bottom line is I dont want shit birds to reap rewards for the efforts of others and that is exactly what is happening. New players get to choose home planet I want that same choice.

    It just angers me that the only remedy to get away from paying shitbirds who care not one bit about their customers I must chip out my ava and start a new one.

    It is compounded by the fact that I have been devalued so much (Thanks Jod for a real explanation of how that happened not just a fanboi response that normally comes) in such a short time which makes me think if it is even worth bothering to continue if in the end the average player is going to be worth nothing after years of effort to grow.
     
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