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RSS Feed Developer-Notes--10---Galactic-Transport

Discussion in 'Entropia Release Notes' started by ArkadiaBot, Nov 12, 2014.

  1. ArkadiaBot

    ArkadiaBot Bringer of News PAF Administrator Planet Arkadia Official

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    Developer Notes #10 - Galactic Transport


    In the upcoming Entropia Universe Version Update 15.1 (currently scheduled for early December), planet-specific auction sections will be removed. This change will result in a single unified auction, something that many participants have requested and something that MindArk believes will result in a more efficient and dynamic interplanetary economy.

    After VU 15.1, buyers will have three options when winning an auction that was listed from a planet that differs from that of the buyer:

    1. Pickup at Origin - Items won from auction will be placed into the buyer’s inventory on the planet of origin (the planet where the auction was created). Buyer must then travel to the planet of origin to retrieve the items from storage.
    2. Normal Delivery - Items won from auction will be transported to the buyer’s storage at the buyer’s current location after a specified period of time (TBD, approximately 1-4 hours). This option will incur a small transport fee, based on the weight of the items to be transported.
    3. Instant Delivery - Items won from auction will be transported immediately to the buyer’s storage at the buyer’s current location. This option will incur the same transport fee as Normal Delivery, along with an extra convenience fee.

    The transport fees collected for the Normal and Instant Delivery options will be held in a special transport fee pool. In a subsequent Version Update, transport missions will be made available that can be claimed by spaceship pilots via a queue system that incorporates the available transport fee pool, pilot skills, time limitations, and ship cargo capacities.

    Those missions will take the form of cargo boxes which must be delivered to a destination in return for a PED reward funded by the transport fee pool. Cargo boxes are at risk of being looted by other participants in cases where the transporting ship is defeated in space combat; the looted cargo boxes can then be delivered to the assigned destination by the looter to claim the original transport mission reward. Note that the cargo boxes will correspond to the value of the transport mission reward rather than the actual items traded via auction sales. In this way piracy of cargo boxes will not negatively impact interplanetary trade.

    It will still be possible to transport goods and resources through space in the current manner, though changes will be made in upcoming Version Updates to address currently existing issues and loopholes that allow for risk-free transport of goods and materials through space.

    MindArk believes that this new Galactic Transport system will result in increased activity and efficiency in the interplanetary market for goods and materials, along with more accurate and informative market history data that will benefit participants on all planets. It will also make for a much more exciting and engaging gameplay experience in space and pave the way for further development of space systems including combat, hunting, transport and resource gathering.

    Continue reading...
     
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  2. sinkillerj

    sinkillerj Active Member

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    I cant decide if I like this news or not, there are certainly positive things here, but we will have to see how it goes, there's a potential for disaster and I also dont feel they are going into as much detail as they need to, particularly how this affects large vessels.
     
  3. Puck

    Puck Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    MA has been crunching numbers. Both they and the Planet Partners obviously felt a change was necessary to stimulate interplanetary trade. I'm anxious to hear the perspective of the shipping magnets and pirate consortium.
     
  4. Sebasrb

    Sebasrb Member

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    I don't really know what to say, but one thing is for sure... The space will be like a hell :blackalien::astronaut:
     
  5. Kitten

    Kitten Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    holy O.O

    thats so much change it sounds awesome though
     
  6. Lizzy

    Lizzy Deactivated User

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    I think this will have positive and also negative sides. Maybe this is their answer to the recent pirate hacking post on PCF, and previous statements before that.

    Positive : It will be easier to sell items now to players from other planets. You will not have to fly to another planet to buy an item people normally list on there. Piracy will also be decreased and will soon enough be a thing for fun, which will also piss off every active member of Nebula Virus.

    Negative : You are no longer to do interplanetary trading, which causes some traders to stop playing. Prices for certain items will drop in MU because they are sold more expensive on Arkadia or Cyrene then they are on Calypso. (I.E. unl armor plates, MF equipment.) And Piron's will end up being cheaper for a lot of players because the MU is generally higher on Calypso. Apart from Interplanetary trading, a lot of travels will slice in half for crafters and traders, because if they do not lose too much ped to travel and pick up items, they will just have it sent to them. (A one-way travel from Arkadia to Calypso costs by my last calculations 4,20ped, including landing fee.)

    How will travel services be? Well, I worry for those offering warp services, because eventually there will be no real good reason to provide warps to people other than crafters. TBF, and I hope this doesn't happen, the way to increase taxi services if indeed warpships go out of business is when they remove certain items from planet loot. Say, wool only drops from cyrene, oils only on calypso, etc.

    Time will tell, and I'm just speculating here.
     
  7. Granny Rowan

    Granny Rowan Active Member

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    This kills space dead, and will in due course kill planets outside Calypso too...
    Let me explain

    Option 1. Seems ok on the face of it, there is still a need for the player to travel to collect the goods.
    But..
    If non-lootables then they have no need of a warp, can do it in a quad.
    No need to do VIP warp in order to get to Auction before item times out
    So warp vessels will see trade halved or worse.

    Option 2. Motherships and warp vessels will need a combination of high SI, good repair crew, gunners and perhaps support from quads etc if they are to avoid being looted of the transport box(es) by use of warp mines or pirate reception committees while heading from SS to warp or at warp re-entry near the SS on arrival.

    The real cost of any delivery could therefore be substantial.. warp cost, ammo costs, quad decay, time of a lot of people, who realistically could and should expect a cut of any profit.
    Quite how an owner is supposed to know what he/she owes crew by way of ammo costs is a complete mystery to me
    Owners also need to factor in that this is a no win, no fee, so even a few percent of failed flights will seriously reduce or wipe out profitability.
    Yes an owner could undertake delivery of several items in same trip...always assuming several are available for delivery to same destination, in same time frame. But this is likely to be a matter of luck.
    So the fee had better be a damn good one.

    As a trader, crafter or even occasional buyer, would you be prepared to pay an appropriate price ? Do you want the goods to sit there with no-one prepared to undertake the delivery, as there is nothing else to take to increase profit. How long do you want to wait ?

    or would you take the cheaper option of using a scheduled warp.. when the pirates know when and where to find the ship ?

    or risk it all and use your quad ?

    Or will you stick to trading on 1 planet only... and I am guessing here that would be Calypso.. the MA owned planet, so guess what this could kill the economy of the universe not enhance it. Do we really want to return to the 'good old days' of a single planet Project Entropia
    The cynic in me says this is a recipe for killing the PP planets, and in full support of the pirates, while doing nothing for the people who invested ped and time in space over the past 2+ years and the amazing efforts of the Planet partners in their attempts to make this a great game

    Option 3.
    You can pay for instant delivery..woo hoo.. suddenly space is irrelevant.. all the ships dead in the water.. may as well go back to using an expensive MA TP

    Quote
    'In a subsequent Version Update, transport missions will be made available that can be claimed by spaceship pilots via a queue system that incorporates the available transport fee pool, pilot skills, time limitations, and ship cargo capacities'

    What do they mean claimed by pilot (owner or pilot they are not the same)...
    What relevance is pilot skill to accepting a mission. the ship may be flown by a different avatar from the one claiming the mission.
    Ship cargo capacity.. fee charged by weight of item... again how is this relevany.. high value items with stupendous mu may weigh very little, and conversely cheaper items may weigh heavy. Again this will stop the trade by the smaller budget player and kill the economy not enhance it.

    Well all in all my congratulations to MA on the most ill thought out vu proposal to date.

    Complete with the usual lack of fine detail such as actual prices, that would allow an owner/investor to know if they should sell before this becomes real, or if they will be able to ride the winds of change.
     
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  8. Bal

    Bal Member

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    Hard to see how this improves the birdseed trade or the game for ship owners. There are enough ships doing nothing now & I'd guess this will increase the pool. :speechless:

    Advantages: MA 1 / Space 0 / Planet Partners 0 / Players ? / Ship owners -1. :banghead:
     
  9. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    It might make space more interesting, it might help peds flow better on beginning planets, but let's be clear here... this VU will take fees from crafters and other players and give those peds to pirates.

    Whether it turns out good or bad depends on the implementation -- the fees, the balancing of skills, cargo weight and ship capacity, and the other changes that happen to space (increased gameplay there).

    I am also concerned about the disconnect between the transport service and the actual goods. It sounds to me like the only point of carrying boxes is to get mission rewards... not to transport actual goods through space... those are automagically transported to the buyer when they pay the peds. To me that just seems a little too Mickey Mouse for Entropia. I have suggested a transport business in the past, but not one that funds piracy via auction fees. I admit, though, it is a difficult problem to solve due to the RCE, and because any solution would be easy to exploit.
     
  10. mastermesh

    mastermesh Active Member

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    I'm glad that these changes are going to be taking place. I think it will help the economy on all planets grow substantially since those that were hoarding stuff to 'wait til we go to Calypso to sell' won't be letting stuff collect digital dust for all those months as they are now.

    I personally missed the ability to buy from other planets via auction with transport fees that we used to have when the fees were split between the existing pilots back then. We took a huge step backwards technologically when that was removed and the tp between planets were removed. I understand the reason tp between planets are still gone, as Mindark still thinks space is important, but this opens up the auction for those of us that want to actually use it to buy or sell between planets.

    For 'collectors' of stuff like blueprints (i.e. all crafters who click more than one blueprint), rare items, etc. this will be a godsend from Lootius himself. As Arkadia is a planet full of 'treasure' this should be very good for all folks that get stuff from the lootpool here on Ark as you'll be able to export your goods easier.

    Think of it as a virtual world ebay... shipping costs are always there if you ship long distances.

    I just really hope they update the 'my items' section of the website to show more clearly exactly which planet stores your stuff as it might get confusing if you opt to buy with the pick up on the planet of origin too often and have stuff scattered around the virtual universe as a result.

    Maybe they can solve that problem by adding a 'transport fee' to have all your inventory on all planets transported to the storage system of the planet you are on right now for those that clicked the pick up at other planet option but later change their mind and decide it may have been better to pay the transport fee after the fact? Now that pet system is back, hopefully they'll also update auction to put pet deeds in the auction... really annoying that you can't do that yet, or that you can't 'drop' any pet without feeding it a few nutrio first to up it's tt value over one pec (silly system rounds down apparently, so one pec of nutrio isn't enough to up the pet's tt value, you have to go one extra nutrio over that to allow the tt value to go over one pec on the pet, otherwise I'd be dropping pet deeds left and right as freebie gifts to whoever wanted a pet, lol).
     
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    Last edited: Nov 13, 2014
  11. AxeMurderer

    AxeMurderer Active Member Pro Users

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    Yeah some great changes are waiting to happen. gj MA
     
  12. Lizzy

    Lizzy Deactivated User

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    After re-reading the comments and the original post, I am still unsure what it will do for motherships and privateers. So, instead of carrying players, they will carry cargo. Only if the 'cargo'-ships will be able to earn from that, it is a plus. Then again, with our current pirate community, that might be something different all together. Slowboating will require a lot of personnel, and warping might be worth it if the trip from planet A to planet B will still be profitable.

    All I know is that the people hoarding warp drives in their storages might finally sell some more than in the past.
     
  13. SallyBridges

    SallyBridges Adviser Arkadia Adviser

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    Yay as with anything expect this to be Enhanced to begin with oh sorry i mean buggy then get mini patched and even more buggy and then maybe get something workable will wait to see what actually gets implimented rather than speculate too much before the patch / update has actually come out and they get chance to look at feedback and support cases once its arrived.

    I can remember the days of been on cnd and transporting through the auction terminal and paying transport costs ;) showing my age but alot has changed since then also more info on the cargo missions but looks like some possitive steps and looks like some of the non busy planets that have auctions that are pretty dead will etleast mean you might get resources and osme of the older crafting blue prints might become usefull again.

    Also those people that visit them have an option to sell resources - will wait and see but might have to hire a big ship to have some fun with once the mini patches have come through ;)
     
  14. BubblesTheTormentor

    BubblesTheTormentor Member

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    So instead of getting an update that just separates auction data by planet like we've been asking for.....we get this.

    I can't say I'm a fan of this update. I always thought that one of the niftiest things about this game was the unique identity of each planet, including (and probably foremost to me) the unique economies that spring up on them. This update seems like it'll take a big swipe into that. Maybe the fees will be so high that this will still keep planetary economies separated, but I doubt MA would do this update if they thought that would be the case.

    I'm sure this will make the game more efficient, but that doesn't always mean better. Part of this game has always been about trying to figure out how to best "beat" (or optimize I guess) the systems that govern this world. Streamlining things just....seems out of the spirit of this game entirely.

    Maybe it'll be for the best, but I just don't see it right now.
     
  15. atomicstorm

    atomicstorm Platinum Member Platinum Member

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    Well, if they also Bork hunting on arkadia like they did on calypso and stuff gets super rare for crafting because of this change, the game dies for me and I'll either be a full time miner or I will be a passive land owner doing the withdraw dance.
     
  16. Cyborg Bill

    Cyborg Bill Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    PVP space was a fail from day one we all know that. This is however far worse as this will do only two things to the economies. First it will it will make it even easier for pirates in space to rob people and make money for doing so. They already use inherent exploits of the video gaming system as well as external hax for the crisis gaming engine to gain advantage in battles.

    Although this may make it easier for crafting community it will in the long haul hurt the general population specifically the less financially secure players just starting out and trying to make their way economically. Players will now be forced to use the AH with all the tilted fee's to make that process even harder if they want to move products without being robbed. (In case new players are not aware the less you put on sale the more it costs you. On the other hand the ceiling is set far too low for the more financially secure players having a max fee not a fee scaled to their posting values ( aka the glass ceiling benefit)) You pay a starting fee of 50 pec on any sale so small sales are expensive. On the other hand a 10k ped or even larger only gets charged 100 ped MAX.

    There have already been instances with MS owners in league with pirates. If they add the non boxed AH deliveries then more of this thievery will be happening and the avg player will be the one hurt.

    Add to that Mindarks history with not being true to their word in most things I see even more issues. Mindark says it will stockpile money to be used "Later" to pay for these so called deliveries. How long does it take them to implement ANYTHING if it gets implemented at all? THEN if it is implemented the ones to get rewared for thievery will get paid a second time on delivery of stolen goods. (btw anyone thought thru what happens when they DONT deliver the stolen boxes?) Will they be sellable on a black market? Can they open the boxes and sell off individual items and stacks on their own? Or even do as they normally do and just tt shit for the fast money?

    Bottom line this: It all adds up to is yet another tax on the non "Special" players in the Entropia universe.

    Again.. just another Stoner Logic failure to comprehend the COMPLETE ramifications of a daddies boys whims.
     
  17. KikkiJikki

    KikkiJikki Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    Boxes don't contain loot. The only link between them and the auction, is the funding of the rewards from the auction fees.
     
  18. Few Scars

    Few Scars Administrator Staff Member PAF Administrator Arkadia Adviser

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    Don't forget. If you are a crafter on Arkadia and you suddenly need 3000 Soft Leathers and catch a mothership to Calypso to buy it you incur the following costs.
    1. Warp fee to Caly 25Ped
    2. Teleport fee down to Calypso surface from Calypso Space Station 7Ped
    Buy your Soft leather
    3. Wait around for next mothership flight, then pay 25Ped for Warp
    4. Teleport down to Arkadia surface from Arkadia Space Station 7 Ped

    All up you have spent in real terms 64Ped just to safely gather the stack of Soft leather you needed as a crafter. Now, with global auction you will be able to get that Soft leather for a fraction of the cost either by slow transport or immediately. I would hope this is only based at a small % of the stack value. If it is more expensive to use auction transport then the motherships and privateer transports with high SI will be able to do runs for you. Pirates aren't suddenly going to be any better at shooting down a mothership with 112000 points of SI than before. For a pirate to take down a mothership needs a lot of Ped in ammo and a group bigger than 2. Also, most motherships have players afk repairing for skills so I wouldn't worry too much.

    I think this new system will be extremely positive for Arkadia, especially for crafters being able to get the ingredients they need in bulk and being able to sell their products on auction accessible by everyone.
    More so, we all hate how the MV for basic items are inflated just because sellers feel the need to inflate the price. This will end and the new Arkadian player will now get to enjoy a level market.

    Bjorn
     
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  19. OZtwo

    OZtwo Active Member

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    Also you need to remember one of the main reasons we no longer see as many pirates out today is due to MA giving the MS all guns. Now pirates need to work for their food and can't use the easy exploits if hiding behind a MS. Of course a lot will yell that it's due to the log off..but I don't think so since again soon after the MS update all pirates just seem to have gone away. A few trying some other new found exploits and getting banned for life (I hoping).

    Also I hope MA is slowly working around this legal loop hole they have now with space. All in all I feel this will be good for all.

    Last, in some way I hope that the a % of the cargo box fees will be going to the PPs.
     
  20. May

    May Active Member

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    I wonder if changes like these make the PP want to facepalm? :facepalm2:
    At least for the PP who started before Space (with the cherry on the cake, lootable PvP) was introduced.
    Which (apparently) was done to create separate economies.
    Now this new update will create an Universal Auction in one fell swoop.
    Is this back to what they originally were expecting? Or is it a slide down to a standardized universe?
    Goods with the same stats in all the planet's TT Terminals, Universal Auction, what's the next step?
    The way it's being described now, it feels like the aspect of physical different and unique planets might slowly get replaced by (paid) convenience. [​IMG]

    Tbh, I'd rather see 'old'/'current' systems being fixed first, before yet another overhaul is done.
    But, oh well: "the times they are a-changin"... [​IMG]
     

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