1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Democracy Needs You!!!

Discussion in 'Entropia Universe' started by Orpheus Clay Blades, May 3, 2016.

  1. Orpheus Clay Blades

    Orpheus Clay Blades Member

    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    18
    The purpose of this project is to design a governance model for the EU.

    I am using this forum to help gather ideas towards that goal.

    Funding Model for The Government website would be crowd sourced.

    Website? Should it be a Forum or general type website?

    Disqualifiers for running for office may include ma or pp staff. purpose of an in game government is for players to have a voice and any conflicts of interest should be evaluated.

    In event a office holder is viewed incompetent a public vote can be requested. In event a office holder deemed incompetent a emergency vote for new official is to be held if there is not lower official.

    Would require Creation of local government section in PP forums.


    The purpose of this post is to outline a system of government that will protect players interest and put forth ideas to developers in a cohesive manner.

    Posts that will be needed for the planets of the universe would be Planetary President, Planetary Vice President, Universe President and Vice President.

    Requirements for posting: ?? hours weekly game time, forum training? Public vote on the local planets official forum

    For Universe Presidential Posts Would be on Official Government Page After local planet run offs for their candidates; i.e. each planet in universe can field a presidential candidate.

    Task candidates should consider before running; Regular forum moderation of polls and review of ideas posted in govt. forum for polling; In game meetings with players; Meetings, Email, and other communications requirements; The ability to perform the duties of office in a manner that does not create personal profit for any group or individuals.

    Duties of Planetary President: To be the voice of their local planet to PP and UP. inclusive duties include managing the local govt forum to disseminate relevant ideas and issues then either conduct a poll to gauge interest and relevancy of issue or report issue to PP contact/ UP. Meeting with UP to bring consensus information from local planet for universe wide issues and ideas and help UP make decisions in regards to issues and ideas.

    Duties of Planetary VP: To aid and support the Planet President to complete duties. In the event that the Planet President is unavailable to take their place.

    Duties of Universe President:


    BreakPoint. REV. 5/3/16OCB
     
    • Creative Creative x 2
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
    Last edited: May 4, 2016
  2. Murkalael

    Murkalael Active Member

    Messages:
    671
    Likes Received:
    152
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Could this lead to a total anihilation of space pvp and the creation of no pet areas? If yes, count me in. Also about gui customization *-*
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  3. the Prophet

    the Prophet Active Member

    Messages:
    297
    Likes Received:
    93
    Trophy Points:
    28
    you got me there! if we leave mindark and planetpartners and mr. president aside, we can finally have a debate! wooohooo!!! \o/
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Orpheus Clay Blades

    Orpheus Clay Blades Member

    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Well MA and PP feel like the senate and congress.
    Also please limit comments to ideas on this topic.
     
    • Creative Creative x 1
    Last edited: May 3, 2016
  5. San

    San Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,021
    Likes Received:
    237
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Once upon a time I thought I could get away from all the politics by fleeing into VR. I don't mind being able to vote for design decisions, that's a great thing. But if the same BS as real-world politicking is taking over my headspace, too, I'ma gonna start shooting random people, possibly not knowing anymore in which reality.
     
    • Welcome! Welcome! x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  6. Dan59

    Dan59 Active Member

    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    42
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Don't dream about democracy because politics is a whore.
    Let me explain.
    For example you vote someone and authorize him with your vote to go in parliament to fight for your case or for your benefit.
    But once dude is in parliament he jump on opposite political group and work against your needs and against on what he promised.
    Shit is that this non ethical behavior is perfectly legal in many countries.
    Democracy would be if all who voted him could immediately take back their votes and cause him to loose that chair in parliament and bring all his common dung back to home.

    In virtual world we can have better, we can set rules witch do not allow an delegate or president to act on his own will but that he must consult participants trough discussions and voting pols or maybe one day voting terminals in game.
    We could make constitution and rules witch do not permit an president to avoid or dodge what was agreed or promised.
    Ofc as normal I bet that we cant lol and just as in RL we will be doomed to live 4 long hard years with actual powers in charge and suffer all bad that power will produce.
    Bud we could?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    Last edited: May 4, 2016
  7. Orpheus Clay Blades

    Orpheus Clay Blades Member

    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    18
    So Added Impeachment policy. Also listed is polling is a standard duty of a representative. Your points are taken and I feel that this is very similar to you second paragraph. Any thing else missing from the proposal? I am editing it based on YOUR FEEDBACK.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2016
  8. light cerealkiller revant

    light cerealkiller revant Member

    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    8
    we should try to include meetings with the officals and limit voteing to one planet's president/vice presidential race for each avatar.
     
  9. KikkiJikki

    KikkiJikki Well-Known Member Pro Users

    Messages:
    3,321
    Likes Received:
    440
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I'm basically opposed to more fake democracy. Bad enough we have president for life of da universe.
     
  10. Orpheus Clay Blades

    Orpheus Clay Blades Member

    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    18
    CK You want one vote for one local and one vote for universe correct? I.E. I vote on Caly for the Caly Pres so I can not vote for Ark Pres, But I can vote for the Ark nominee for Universe Pres. If so all voting would need to be handled on a individual web site.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2016
  11. Orpheus Clay Blades

    Orpheus Clay Blades Member

    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Well fake isn't right we can create a more real democracy in this game than real life because the posting is little to no real power.
    It is for us to be represented by someone we chose and then they can use the voice we give them to speak on the most relevant issues we face. It isn't so people can spout off ideas to make them money. It is so we can say we don't like this or we really want this or this fixed. The duties are to represent us the player.

    I am also not interested in being a President or VP. I want to help expand our virtual world and maintain a stable experience.
     
  12. Orpheus Clay Blades

    Orpheus Clay Blades Member

    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Side note I am willing to pledge $50.00 yearly to the operation of a official EU Government website as long as it is a freely elected positions.
     
  13. slither

    slither Active Member

    Messages:
    361
    Likes Received:
    41
    Trophy Points:
    28
    There's a wishlist sub-forum here. Post idea and discuss it, the dev team will probably read it too. If an idea is particularly liked by most the users then pm ark dev and ask them to read it to make sure it's not overlooked. At the end of the day the ark team have total power, you either continue to play or you don't.

    You don't need politics and presidents.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. KikkiJikki

    KikkiJikki Well-Known Member Pro Users

    Messages:
    3,321
    Likes Received:
    440
    Trophy Points:
    83
    This post is also a response to Bjorn's more Arkadian specific thread.

    I think it's great when people put forward ideas for moving the game forward and I don't wish to discourage that habit. So I would rather post support for an idea I like and just leave the other ones alone. But sometimes I want to be a bit more forceful in criticising suggestions because I have serious concerns as opposed to a mere "meh" reaction.

    I think this is a bad idea. A really bad idea that would be difficult and effortful to implement while delivering minimal benefits.

    The reality is that EU is not and never will be a democracy. The platform is owned by MA. The intellectual property associated with Arkadia is owned by Dave Dobson's company. They will always determine what will happen with this game and that is how it should be.

    Should they take into account user views? Absolutely. I think most will agree that Dave's people are pretty good at this and MA is pretty terrible at it. There could be an arguement for setting up a user group which not only provides feedback from all users but meets somehow with the game owners to talk about issues and development roadmaps and such just as happens with commercial products. But we have the forums, is it really necessary? We can already post feedback to Dave's team on things we are concerned about and others can join in the discussion. I think a really good addition would be for the dev team to post occasional threads: "What do you think about...", setting up an moderating a discussion to gauge users attitudes to a current situation or possible new direction.

    And of course you can always write to dev team members directly and they do respond.

    I appreciate that MA don't offer that level of engagement. They have tried but the culture in the PCF forum is too toxic and they inevitably withdraw from the process and stop engaging. Really they should bite the bullet and set up their own forum which they control and moderate. But that's a decision for them.

    Trying to implement a democratically elected "government" in the cloud presents a number of problems.
    Firstly its not actually a government. It controls no resources, has no powers, no services to deliver. It's really a user advocate group or perhaps the equivalent of a student council. There is no compelling reason for MA to be any more responsive to such a body than it is to current feedback methods.

    I really am not clear on the role of the one "democratically elected" position we have in EU. What powers does ND have. What is he really supposed to achieve? I don't feel represented by him. MA's waffle about developing some sort of structure encompassing multiple game platforms is either fantasy or bullshit.

    Secondly there are huge issues with how you actually democratically elect members. Is it even possible? We have already seen the nonsense that is the Office of the President of Virtual Reality and the associated "election" demonstrate some pitfalls. A facebook poll? Really?
    But when you try to come up with a better method then, well, I personally struggle to find a good solution. How do you know who you are voting for. A number of prominent avatars are thought to be alts shared by several people. So who are you voting for? The avatar that can be shared around? One or more people behind an avatar? Perhaps we should only vote for real people but then what is their track record in the game or the forums?
    Do you follow the principle of one person, one vote? How do you enforce that in this environment?

    At the end of the day I think we are unlikely to be able to successful set up a government that can achieve any more than a well run forum with responsive developers who understand the value of listening to their customers and engaging in meaningful dialog.

    Regards,
    Kikkiikki
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  15. Dan59

    Dan59 Active Member

    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    42
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Sadly this can be true for dev team of an planet but not for MA.
    In many cases there is need to communicate with someone who have decisional power at MA as many things depend on MA actions in the end.
    I agree with you that having government and president can represent some fun for community and can represent just another form of source of players wishes that MA may take into consideration or discard it.

    Another issue is that MA don't want communication.
    Well we have it but is one way communication, you write to MA and that is it, thing end here, they do not answer.
    They have elevated form of defense which permit them to not answer.
    They have filter witch is known as support team.
    In past they had also double filter - filter of filter in form of community manager.
    Now we can have also filter of filter of filter witch is rumored to be president.
    So triple filter to be sure that question or issue do not hit person who have decisional power at MA.
    Sure anyone can deny this and write a lot of cool and colorful text but technically we newer communicate with MA person who can decide, answer and take responsibility of own actions.
     
  16. San

    San Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,021
    Likes Received:
    237
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I rated OP 'creative' to honour what I think is a sincere effort, but I want there to be no doubt after the rather light-hearted remark above that I have a passionate dislike for any form of government following me into one private space after another. Nor do I want to waste my time with even thinking about it at least in the context we are gathered here. Getting enough of that in the so-called real world already, in which more people have lost their sense of reality than I find bearable, which makes me appreciate this VR for not pretending to. KikkiJikki has summed up exhaustively what this place is and how we can communicate with those who are making all this possible and where other places don't do quite so well and why. This is all there is to it and I now want to go back to playing.

    I have said it elsewhere that I am positive towards Neverdie as a person, what this whole "government" idea is supposed to mean for Entropia and what role he thinks he is playing is rather a mystery. The aforementioned toxic culture in some forums doesn't help to shed any light. Until it is understood and what the impact on my own virtual life will be, I will carry on as usual.
     
  17. Oleg

    Oleg Active Member

    Messages:
    267
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Can we just go back to the days when the developers developed the game, and the players played it?

    Recent events have demonstrated why any form of "government" is a bad idea. Inevitably the people who seek power are the least suitable to hold it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  18. DaughterOfAnarchy

    DaughterOfAnarchy Active Member

    Messages:
    527
    Likes Received:
    101
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Like it or not, EU IS NOT A DEMOCRACY.

    Even being here is not a right, but a privilege.

    TOS / EULA (which we all accepted when creating out accounts and every time when logging in the game) is very clear about that... MA has the right to make any changes they want, even terminate any or all accounts without offering any compensations or explanations if they feel like... The only real "vote" we have at our disposal is the "voting with our wallet" part... deposit more, deposit less or move our business out of here all together.

    It is their interest to listen, and some devs (like Ark ones) actually do listen; those who don't listen (or at least not answer back) like MA, are doing it on their own cost and there is nothing we can do about it. We can sure create as many councils, boards or governments as we want (heard at least a half dozen similar ideas these days on PCF), but imagining they will change anything is simply delusional.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Orpheus Clay Blades

    Orpheus Clay Blades Member

    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Well I guess you guys don't comprehend the power of organized players. With a Government created and supported by players we would be more able to organize strikes that would get a response. I get the idea that you feel that you are in this for yourself. I guess I will give up. I left ark anyways. Also you guys are either illiterate or toxic trolls. Easy enough to click the disagree and not participate. Also for you trolls the biggest reason the sword event went away was people complaining endlessly in my pm during the event about the FREE swords not being full tt. sorry that last bit is irrelevant just wanted to complain and like most people in this forum post that was meant to be for coming up with ideas as a community.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    Last edited: May 4, 2016
  20. Dibbler

    Dibbler Member

    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Totally agree.

    We don't need an elected person, we need devs to communicate more with their players like Ark team do.
     

Share This Page