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Can you please stop turning "my" game into a WoW clone (soulbound nonsense)

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Fallen, Oct 31, 2013.

  1. Fallen

    Fallen Member

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    hey, missed me on your planet and forum? :p
    i can understand wishing to copy WoW's success but destroying the whole concept of this game and its only Unique Selling Point to do so is really not the way to go IMHO.
    because that has always been THE basic premise, and i know the owners of this planet have played this game long enough to understand this, everything, skills and items, can be freely traded, im a trying to picture the meeting where you all sat together and some bright spark came up with the idea to make items that can not be freely traded, and what you think it actually adds to the game.
    because that is why items getting added to the game, to improve the game for participants i take it?
    i know this post might be a little sarcastic but i also think most people can understand where i am coming from with this tone of voice, i was going to go into more detail, as i have done in the past with some of the mind-boggling choices and mistakes that have been made, but really, what is the point, beyond registering the fact that there are people that are very unhappy with this course that arkadia is taking and the effects this will have on the wider universe.
     
  2. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    If you think about it, bound armor will affect longterm MU of other items LESS than if the special armor had been made freely tradable. Why? Because the bound armors are only available for a limited time. Only the people who get it inside the window will have the bound armor. After that time ends, as new players start playing the game, the number of people wanting the other armor will go back up to normal.

    Also, there are many other things in game that have never been tradable, such as attributes and avatar modifications. You don't think of them as "ruining" your game because they don't. But if you had previously been able to trade those things and then couldn't, you might be outraged and feel that the game was no longer playable.
     
  3. KikkiJikki

    KikkiJikki Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    Neil, I'm not opposed to what is happening with bound armour but that's bullshit. Viceroy armour will continue to be available via the mission, it just wont have the skullcandy logo on it. There's no time limit for taking or finishing the mission. We have no reason to think the smuggler armour mission will be for a limited time either.

    Personally I have observed a positive economic effect from the viceroy armour, in terms of increased MU on relevant mission components. No drop in sales of my crafted armour. I expect the MU on gremlin has taken a hit though.

    I would just like players to have the option to sell back to TT for full TT value.

    Regards,
    KikkiJikki
     
  4. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    double post
     
  5. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    I was just going by what I heard. I hope you're right and that the devs will decide to keep the mission permanent, since it has increased the MU on certain TT resources, looks great, and plus has been really popular. If it drives down the markup of Gremlin, well... IMO the benefits of the Viceroy mission to the economy outweigh any potential affect on the MU of one set of Calypso armor that really has no relevance to the Arkadian economy anyway.

    Since people prefer viceroy over gremlin mainly because of looks, maybe those people who are concerned about their gremlin MU should be taking the issue to the Caly devs.... get them to redesign the Gremlin armor to look like something people would want to wear. And maybe they could re-design the other identical-but-with-different-colors armors with a little more creativity.
     
  6. Kitten

    Kitten Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    I am very curious to see what the quest requires to do it if its like the viceroy style or something different :eek:

    I am sure that just like the viceroy it will cost comparable to existing armor markups so little impact on existing values or mindark would not let in it.

    Also I think the chosen stats on the armor is interesting I bet a new mobs will use those damage types this vu or soon vu :eek:
     
  7. David | Arkadia

    David | Arkadia Administrator Staff Member PAF Administrator Planet Arkadia Official

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    A few points to address concerns:

    The Viceroy quest will remain permanently, it's the Skull Candy edition that is short term. As of this coming update (due Tuesday) players will be able to hand in their armor to get the TT value returned if they so wish (we do listen to your feedback hey!)

    The Viceroy quest gives a very good example of how these types of quests for bound items work. Needless to say that the stats on the Smuggler armor make it obvious that it will be a much more costly and arduous quest than the Viceroy. People speculating that this armor would be introduced at half the cost of Angel or even 2500 peds is simply way off the mark.

    These quests are not designed at all to appeal to the players who want the cheapest option (as is highlighted by the Viceroy quest, a budget conscious player will always choose the Gremlin armour).

    The benefits to the economy by creating a broad base of demand on many items that otherwise have little value is a key consideration.

    These quests have a major part to play in the story development of the planet and especially in developing the identity of the players who undertake the quest. Simply put, if you see someone wearing that armour then they are a genuine Smuggler, not someone who purchased the armor from auction.

    The quest for the Smugglers will be much more involved than the Viceroy quest. It won't simply be a matter of collecting resources, but rather a broad mix of story driven missions, instance raids, resource collection, task completion etc. It is being designed to take a considerable amount of time to complete with a variety of rewards that are focused on developing the players identity as a Smuggler.

    Quests that include bound items are by no means designed to become a major part of the Arkadian nor Entropian economy. It is anticipated that these quests will appeal to a portion of the community but not all. So if it sounds like it doesn't suit you as a player, then likely you are not who the quest is designed for. We want the game to have a broad appeal with different options of gameplay.

    Arkadia has a great many quests in development (some of which you will see in the update following next weeks update).

    I would encourage people not to jump to conclusions about the doom of the Real Cash Economy, that is definitely going to remain as the central tenet of Arkadia and EU.

    I hope that has helped clarify our position and I look forward to bringing you lots of exciting new gameplay involving the Smugglers of Arkadia.

    Dave
     
  8. OZtwo

    OZtwo Active Member

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    David thank you for your reply. The question still stands will these missions be for items that will be bound to the avatar and if so why?
     
  9. David | Arkadia

    David | Arkadia Administrator Staff Member PAF Administrator Planet Arkadia Official

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    Sorry but I can't see how my response wasn't directly answering your questions? Yes the Smuggler armor will be received as a bound set via missions. As to why, I do believe my response answered that.
     
  10. Lokia

    Lokia Adviser Arkadia Adviser

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    will Arkadia ever have some quests for unbound items? and why or why not?
     
  11. David | Arkadia

    David | Arkadia Administrator Staff Member PAF Administrator Planet Arkadia Official

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    Yes Arkadia will have many quests that don't involve bound items. As I said in my post above the bound items will not be a major part of development, just one area being developed to ensure a broad range of gameplay options are available.
     
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  12. Zweshi

    Zweshi Member

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    Thank you for your reply David, its greatly appreciated. The option to return the viceroy, although not perfect, i think is a good way to go. I would of course like to see a Entropia without these items but it is nonetheless reassuring that you guys are only looking at implementing it in a very limited fashion.

    Best regards
    Zweshi
     
  13. coz1969

    coz1969 Member

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    I love the idea of a limited amount of quests/missions for avatar-bound equipment. David, thank you for explaining quite nicely that those type of missions will only be a small part of development for Arkadia.

    I am also happy to see the quest for smuggler armor will not just be all about collecting resources and turning them in... this allowed many players to simply "buy" the armor if they wished... and hey, if they wanted to do that, and pay a nice markup, fine. I was happy with collecting my own resources. But the fact remains, it was all just about stashing stuff in inventory. Having to do various activities in order to complete the armor sounds like a much more exciting prospect. From the indications of the raids and whatnot, it's not just about "kill X number of this type of creature".... which will appeal to more than a few. TBH, I am looking forward to this type of mission, because the simple "grind and go" missions are, in a word, boring.
     
  14. Oleg

    Oleg Active Member

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    What this actually highlights, to me, is the fundamental problem with the Viceroy "mission". Gremlin may well be a cheaper option right now (I'm not sure what the current prices are), but as far as I know Gremlin no longer drops and its price had been increasingly steadily for some time, until Viceroy appeared. The ability to, effectively, buy Viceroy from the system for a set TT+markup price has put a limit on the price that Gremlin could ever feasibly reach, and therefore the market price is no longer governed by the supply/demand mechanics we are used to. Instead we now have an element of artificial control, due to an essentially infinite supply of Viceroy, that was not previously present. This is the major economic impact of Viceroy and, potentially, of further avatar-bound items.

    This supposedly beneficial effect has been overstated by you and others. The previously TT food items that are needed to get Viceroy are still TT food. There may have been a small impact on some of the more difficult to obtain items (some of the less common paints, for example) but overall the impact on prices of these items has been minimal to non-existent, beyond a brief rush in the first week or so after the "mission" was introduced.

    All of that is good to hear and would certainly be an improvement on the buy-with-items implementation on Viceroy, but we're still presumably looking at a potentially infinite supply of Smuggler armour. No matter how difficult it is to obtain it, everyone will be able to do so, if they put enough effort into it. Why on earth would they bother trying instead to obtain, for example, Chelydra armour, which is in extremely short supply and has no benefit that would not be surpassed by Smuggler armour? When there is no longer any demand at all for Chelydra as a result, why would anyone ever bother trying to complete the Traeskeron wave?

    The potential damaging impact on the economy is much wider than you or MA acknowledge and/or understand.

    Again you've highlighted the problem while appearing to deny it. Whether we are interested in participating in the missions you have created is barely relevant. We will be affected by it on a wider and more fundamental level whether we participate or not.

    I'm finding it increasingly difficult to believe that this is true. Until recently I felt that Arkadia were, of all of the active planets, the ones most committed to maintaining some worth in the economy. After Calypso's disastrous weapon rebalancing strategy, Cyrene's introduction of game-changing unlimited gear, and Rocktropia's desperate efforts to leech players from other planets by dropping otherwise unattainable old-school items, you seemed to be resisting the urge to join in with such silliness, but this appears to be no longer the case. Ultimately I lay the blame with MA for allowing any of this to happen, but you are doing your part, and I am sorely disappointed.

    The fundamental problem in all of this is with MA's planet-partner model which was flawed from the beginning. This race-to-the-bottom competition was inevitable.
     
  15. Kitten

    Kitten Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    also calypso RUINED vehicle market with free car for noobies and mindark from the free jeep for disciples and they DESTROY pixie prices with the free disciple armors and they kill basic filter prices with the free bp to new players on caly too

    ALL doom and despair! sacrifice your peddies to lootsifer dark god of loots!


    >^.^<

    ** edit: I was being funny and sarcastic above hehehhe :D **
     
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  16. anthonymorris

    anthonymorris Platinum Member Platinum Member Arkadia Adviser

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    I agree with David not all missions are for all players, if you dont want a bonded set then you have the option not to do the mission. I love the idea of bonded items it gives a sense of accomplishment, honor, and loyalty(for me personally it does).
     
  17. Chuck Jarrdhead Wholrey

    Chuck Jarrdhead Wholrey Active Member

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    WOW's success is based on the ability for children to play a game that looks like an old N64 console version. I had never like WOW, and know many, many others in the same boat. The large raid groups are great, but c-mon all you need is one "Leroy Jenkins" to screw it all up for you. And lets be real... its a kids game, This is not. Its not a fair comparison.

    If you were to say the game could use more systems like the crafting from Star Wars Galaxies, I would agree, but that game is long dead. Death by the Developers really... when Sony tried to convert it to a console and PC, it was doomed.

    The Viceroy Armor has done a great job of bringing players to Arkadia, and introducing them to a player base that is more welcoming than Calypso. They arrive looking for armor, and get advice on where or how to hunt new mobs, or buy direct from the newer hunters at the quarry. The new players are getting good exp from these dealings, and good opportunities for MU.
    If this great experience lowers the value of another planets old merchandise... So be it, it is after all a different planet.
    The Viceroy is bound so it cannot be re-sold. If the players could, they would create 50 alt-accounts and farm the MU of a better, newer product. Most of the loss of MU complaints I see are from those who feel they have been cheated in their opportunity to make money on resale.

    This sounds great, Earning the armor through actions. Not just purchasing the items. This is what established real value. Some things you just cannot buy.
    If a player can buy POE from the AU, and a mod "____" and go kill anything... It has no value, nothing was earned, and the player will likely burn out and crash the MU on said items on resale when they exit.
    I hope to see more thought required missions, and in depth storyline. Arkadia has not disappointed me yet.

    As for the value... Its not for sale, its earned... and "May not be for everyone"

    Who cares about the Trask wave, that is another planets mess. Why should another planets problems have anything to do with the success of Arkadia.... Each planet is independent of each other, MA can balance as the see fit, But... Seriously though don't even get me started on the forced balancing on the Arkadian weapons.... Ask Bordian Chilix how he feels about it. Kinda funny how Calypso got the #1 spot back... Ask any crafter how they feel about 1 ped TT guns.

    <tried to shorten it a bit>

    I would have to say, Apples to Oranges.... your comparing items with MU that has been inflated by trade, after re-sale, after re-sale, after re-sale, until only the crazy could afford to purchase it. That is not a viable future for any game. If the average player cannot work towards a great item, what is the point of even playing? A soul bound item removes the resale effect. It allows an item to be released that stretches the "rules" that we are used to. Better stats, Better looks, But it cannot be bought or resold. That last part is what everyone is complaining about.
    I agree there is a fine line in what will save the MU for the "uber" items of old. We want value behind our items. It is what may allow the "end game" for most players...
    But lets get real.... We are not the ones taking advantage of the planets new systems as much as they are feeding off of each other. Remember when Rocktropia thought they were "cute" and had offered Treasure Hunting as a new promo?
    I think more worry needs to go to... Whats the next rip of this idea? Will Next Island come back from the dead with a soul bound MOD Herb Box? I agree some limits need to come into play, but that is for MA to decide.

    Ya know... That is really a great way to promote a Planet you wear a jacket for.

    Its the new players that you say screwed the system, that feed this game. you know the ones your jacket charges you to help...
    Doom and despair really?



    Ok I may have gone on a rant.... But seriously guys, This is Arkadia not Calypso. The CEO comes to talk to the players, A Member of the staff Chris, logs in to the Quarry almost every day to check how things are running. we do not get that from any other planet.

    This planet is special, I was "born" on Next Island, But this is my home, And I will defend it.

    If you dont like it here go back to Calypso, and dont ruin it with negativity for others.

    -Chuck-
     
  18. KikkiJikki

    KikkiJikki Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    Chuck, I don't think Kitten was being serious...
     
  19. David | Arkadia

    David | Arkadia Administrator Staff Member PAF Administrator Planet Arkadia Official

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    Thanks for sharing your thoughts, when written in a thoughtful way as you have I'm always willing to discuss and listen. See my comments below.

    You seem to giving no value to the fact that Gremlin can be sold and therefore the funds withdrawn in the future. I contest that we have players who do value that and hence there will always be demand for tradable items like the Gremlin armour. I am also saying that there are players who don't value that as highly as many think and are therefore willing to complete a quest for a bound item/items. Of course the quest presents a challenge which is enjoyable to complete and the fact the item is bound adds value because it shows everyone you as a player undertook and completed the challenge. You are right in saying that with the Viceroy quest in place the likelihood that Gremlin will ever cost 10,000 PEDs has been reduced to almost zero, but I'm not sure you'll have too many players who think the prices should ever get that high anyway. The existence of Limited armours also plays into this mix, and I believe is currently having a much greater impact on the price of Gremlin than the Viceroy quest.

    What you have stated yourself is that the Viceroy quest has put an effective floor on the value of an armour set. The biggest risk here is for Arkadia; in that if the balancing of the economy is managed in such a way so that there is oversupply of tradable armours so that no one undertakes the quest. This would simply mean our investment in development of the quest and the armour is no longer used by players. It does raise a question neither of us can answer, that being, if the Gremlin was selling at 101%, would anyone still undertake the Viceroy quest.

    The benefit of the Viceroy quest was never expected to see massive price increases. It's about having a benefit, about seeing a MU rise by a couple of percent here and there. Viceroy is also a relatively small quest PED wise and as such will never create a total shift in value across the universe.

    What is more relevant here is the current problem of a centralised auction history which means it's quite difficult to ascertain the impact of a single quest.

    I really don't see the link here, the Chelydra armour is not even remotely similar to the Smuggler armour? As I said the Smuggler quest will be a very arduous quest that will be costly, so unless all players have an infinite supply of both funds and time then you won't see an infinite supply of Smuggler armour entering the game.


    Like every new addition within any economy it will have an impact, I'm not denying that it will have an impact. I'm saying it's a positive impact and not a negative.

    You are right that the management of Arkadia is very focused on the economy of the planet and is not out to mess with the economy to have short term activity increases that have long term negative consequences.
    As I pointed out above, a quest such as the Viceroy Quest has the effect of setting a floor on the value of items. ie the value of Gremlin will always be compared to Viceroy, in essence I'm saying that gremlin is a relative bargain right now due to it being both cheaper than Viceroy and being tradable.

    I think a bigger discussion that may develop here is how much value does the playerbase place on an item being tradable and therefore giving the option to withdraw the funds at a later date. It's always been assumed that it's a highly valuable trait and yet the Viceroy quest demonstrates that it's not the main driving factor for every player.
     
  20. Oleg

    Oleg Active Member

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    Thanks for the reply David. I may reply in more detail later (don't have time right now) but just to pick up on a couple of points:

    I'm not sure how relevant this is to the bound-item question but I agree it's a significant problem that needs to be addressed by MA. Since you've mentioned it hopefully that means you're chasing them to do something about it (though we all know how futile that can be!).


    I picked Chelydra as an example because the appeal of Chelydra lies in it's high impact protection, which is otherwise only available in unlimited form on the likes of Shadow/Supremacy etc. Smuggler also has the high impact protection (exact same value iirc).

    Perhaps I shouldn't have chosen such a specific example though, as that's somewhat missing the point. I'm really concerned about the overall effect on the entire armour market, and by extension the economy as a whole.
     

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