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Armor SIB

Discussion in 'Armour' started by ruslan, Jan 5, 2011.

  1. ruslan

    ruslan Member

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    I just have this suggestion,

    Would it be possible to make Armors have SIB, just so noobs can follow a certain guideline and wont go out of their way overspending on decay.

    I mean, they should still be able to wear high lvl armours if they really need to but at an expense.

    What are your thoughts on this?


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  2. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    I think the idea is good, but the results would be quite shocking. Since new people will try to upgrade till the next SIB armor, they are actually more likely to use an armor that protect (=decays) more then the armor they are currently using. So instead of heaving less decay they will actually overspend on decay.

    And i feel the high level armor is costly enough as it is already :)
     
  3. Cyborg Bill

    Cyborg Bill Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    There is enough info on armors availabale to make an intellegent decission on what to use. SIB was a good idea but now the nerf bats have beat upon it its all pretty much window dressing now. The problem with all this stuff is everyone wants to get as big and strong as possible in the shortest amount of time. The old armors were set up decent for the way EU was layed out. If you spent any time researching them you can actually see a "Progression" designed into them by damage types, protection values, and durability. The whole problem is too many people want to hunt bigger then they are really able to skill wise and end up using armor above their defensive skills.

    The defensive skills are what dictate how bad an armor will decay for you. I learned this early as when I hunted daily I decided on using bear armor after a short time in game. The factors I used were its protections over all vs many damage types was decent and the price for it bac then was really nice when compared to the favored boar armor. Anyway I used it too early and got killed by decay costs as I had no skill to use it. Now days it is pretty efficiant for me to use but I really dont need it. Most anything I need want or desre to hunt (only on very rare ocassions now days) that I can kill efficicantly is easy enough for me without the armor and extra expenditures on decays.

    Too be honest I tell any player that wants to listen to forgo armor all together. The amount of ped wasted to buy and maintain it could be used to chip defensive skills higher then the level you could viably afford to hunt easily enough. With sib weapons having grown enough in range to outskill defensive skills far to quickly people tend to out grow their effective range giving the illusion they need better armor and not better defensive skills. MA did not make sib armor as this would show the players this fact and they would lose more in decays as players wouldnt fight or spend above normal levels to hunt the way they do.
     
  4. ruslan

    ruslan Member

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    This is exactly what i'm talking about, some people think they've outgrown an armour, when the reality is they should still be using an armour a couple of levels below their current one.

    I kinda understand that it limits the amount of choice and freedom ppl have, but I just kinda had to throw it out there to point out a potential issue if you will.

    I currently have 3 armours: Angel SGA, Boar ... actually I own quite a few low lvl armours. :) and my evade lvl is 40, but still after a Scip hunt I feel like I'd rather take a fork in my kneecup, than look at my Decay bill, even tho Angel is SUPER eco! :)

    I have used Nemesis since like lvl5 evader, and know first hand what it feels like, even tho I did enjoy all the protection and comfort. :)


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  5. M Rufen Power

    M Rufen Power Member

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    Interesting idea, I think it could definately work. It doesnt have to be forced upon the players but as long as they know that their skills makes a certain armour better to use than a higher one it is a good move. I already know what armours are to high for me and are not. Since I own a whole collection really :p. But I also spend lots of time on the armor advisor and learning my capabilities before going out. My general rule is if you cant survive 10 normal hits with an armour combination you shouldnt be hunting it. This works fairly well for low to medium mobs.
     
  6. Shwi

    Shwi New Member

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    Bring back the mentoring, and noobs will have more info about armors etc. Maybe it easyer than making sib armours.
     
  7. Wistrel

    Wistrel Member

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    I'm against this.
     
  8. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    While i agree, i would like to know why :)
     
  9. ruslan

    ruslan Member

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    There is plenty of info, but there's a bit more to the SIB.

    One of the issues, which I foresee with what I'm suggesting is:

    A new barrier to entree for the low skilled ones into the resource market of the highly skilled ones. It kinda is not good in a way because it restricts the competition, but it is not necessarily bad also, cause it would give players a certain cense of direction and encouragement to skill and see where they are at with their defence skills.

    Another plausible setback may be the inability of higher lvl players to find some resources, because someone else hasn't skilled up to loot these things yet. But, the good thing is that even a smaller time player will still be able to wear an armour and find the resource for more decay, therefore inflating the markup abit and giving higher skilled players an ability to enter the market and loot/produce the resource at a more efficient price.

    One more thing would be that the MU on high lvl armours will fall, because it'd be more expensive using it, but on the other hand the MU for other armours, which actually match the players actual skill would rise. This would also push players to skill further to try avoiding paying premium because of higher demand.


    This type of change may also affect the price of high LVL armours (Supremacy, Shadow, Angel). But maybe something could be done to make these UL armours more efficient? Better materials? Ease of use? Or some other justification, to make sure the wealth invested in those is not destroyed by mear fact of ingame dynamics.

    I really think this aspect is pretty important to the ingame progress and would fit with the general idea of SIB to guide new players.

    IRL examples: Would better shoes make a non-soccer player score goals more often? would a better hockey stick make a non-hockey player score more often? I dunno, something to think about.


    What are your thoughts? But please be more detailed in your replies.


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  10. Cyborg Bill

    Cyborg Bill Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    So..from all this I get....you want sib on armor so more MU can be gained for higher skilled players?... Price of armor does not hinder the needs of the players who can use something effeciantly. Pricing only works to the maker / sellers advanatage. Use and decay of the item is what effects the player using the end product.

    Anyway I will stop here and go with this...get rid of SIB. period. The faster people skill the more nerfs MA must come up with like we have seen thus far with the evolution of L gear and fast skilling. SIB= Suckered into Buying. It only devalues the game.

    And no.. better gear does not by any means make a player better...in sports one either has the talant or they do not...the gear they use evolves in a minor fassion to aid the player..it evolves in a MAJOR way to aid the sponsors of the players now days. The same goes for EU. you ether learn what works or stay prey to all the window dressing.

    Trust me no matter how many times I pump my shoes I STILL will never dunk a basket ball.
     
  11. ruslan

    ruslan Member

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    No, because that would depend entirely on the demand, but yes in a way that the competition would drive people to skill up and have an edge over the less efficient ones, but then again, only the ones able to use the looted gear would be able to use it. Just like iRL.

    They can't it efficiently, that's why there's the skill curve, and that's why you need to level up. In fact, they are already paying premium in decay without even knowing it, indirectly, cause of their low defense skills.

    Very true, but do you really wanna see some of the unlucky people decay their way to oblivion?

    SIB bonus makes people skill faster it also makes em see more or less how efficient they are with their choices. I look at SIB as a component of Transparency, not the one of nerfs, and other made up things that make people "Ahh" at the old times.

    Talant is only a matter of knowledge and for sports it does, arguably, require some genetic predisposition. It would be nice to loot fragments of knowledge, to make some more knowledgeable about the mechanics and dynamics of the system. But, then, you'd leave it to chance, which supposedly the game is not about.

    I don't think SIB benefits MA, its the exact opposite.

    If you've had the manual for your shoes you would've known that it just wont work.


    Good stuff.
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  12. Cyborg Bill

    Cyborg Bill Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    I guess we shall have to call it a day and say we dont agree..

    I believe SIB is pure evil and a bane to the game...I cant justify it no mater how many times I look at it and from what angle. Evil begets evil and the perpetuation of L and SIB continues to suck the life from EU.
     
  13. ruslan

    ruslan Member

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    I'm not looking to agree. Agreements are counter-productive in this case.:)

    As i've said before, I just wanna throw my thoughts on the matter out there and see if maybe a better solution can be reached, instead of the current implementation.

    It looks as though your general view on SIB is different. So, maybe we can create another topic and discuss how to improve and better the fundamentals of SIB for Arkadia. But, I think you should be the one making it, since you have an issue with it. And, I'd suggest you look at facts rather than how you believe it may seem to feel. :)

    Sorry, I wont take the "I'm tired, Let's call it a day and name him Stephanie" as an answer. :)


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  14. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    Hi Stephanie,

    The big problem with SIB on armors would be that players want to move up to the next SIB armor as soon as they have maxed the armor they are using now, so actually increasing their cost of play. Take me for example, when i go mining i am usually unarmored or wearing pixie, hunting is normally done in gremlin. With my skills i'm probably on SIB of angel, but there is no way i am using angel because i know the decay is a lot higher then my usual armors, and with my usual armors i can take out anything i want (ok for daspletors and such i have to team up, but even with angel armor i would need to do that :)).

    But if i was a newcomer i would just move on up with the SIB ladder and use angel armor on argonauts, more decay is nice for planet partners, but not so nice for player retention.
     
  15. ruslan

    ruslan Member

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    I've read your 2010 analysis on PCF, and I think you're spot on with how you've used the results to minimize the decay on a lot of things.
    But, what you're saying now is different, or maybe it wasn't you on PCF. You assume you should be on SIB of Angel, even though your numbers tell you otherways.

    I think your level is exactly that of Gremlin, and everyone should cut their armour decay by half or somewhere around that area. If say your Evade/Dodge lvl is 30, you should be wearing an armour with a maximum 15 points of protection. which is Kinda what a plated Gremlin gives you.


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  16. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    Yes that is me.

    Let's take gremlin for an example, level 30 evader takes years to achieve for a casual gamer, and it is a relative noob armor. I've used it since level 5 evader (ok it was probably ghost, but still) especially for the fun team hunts on CP or bigger mobs that you can't solo. And for team hunts it is very eco to use even at that level.

    Now take gremlin for example again. If you said SIB for gremlin should start at level 10, i would have countered with that it is very uneco to use with such noobish skills and putting SIB on it is only another way of MA (or Arkadia) to take peds from poor unsuspecting noobs.

    So whichever SIB level they would decide on they would have a lot of people whining about it in my opinion. Don't get me wrong i like the idea, but i can't see it implemented in this universe without dozens of people threatening to quit the game over it.
     
  17. ruslan

    ruslan Member

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    It does take some time to get to lvl 30, but as long as you know _when_ to swtich your ped should last you longer. Doing team hunts on the other hand should not throw you into a decay spiral, it should do the opposite and reduce your armour & fap decay.
    Yes, because at level 10 you should be using an armour that protects you for 5 points only, ideally. I know its a bit hard to let go of using Ghost on Atrox, but if your goal is to have a sustainable life in EU that would be the best way to arrange a proper progression.
    That's an interesting point you bring up about "this universe", what IF the idea was specific to only this planet so it could be tested out, maybe there will be a demand for this type of loot on other planets too. Or how about only introducing new things at the noob level, and seeing how people take it. Only the market can tell whether people like it or not.


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  18. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    then i would say it might just work :)
     
  19. Cyborg Bill

    Cyborg Bill Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    Lets leave the just toss in crap and see how it works to FPC...they have that dialed in and look where Claypso is headed. (flushing noises in backround to emphasize point)
     
  20. ruslan

    ruslan Member

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    Let's not underestimate the technique, since it's the one that gave humanity so many useful and cool inventions. :)


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