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Arkadia Underground Deeds - sound investment?

Discussion in 'Arkadia Underground Deeds (AUDs)' started by Ido, Mar 22, 2014.

  1. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    I'm expecdting the remaining Sildaresh maps (4-10) to start dropping.
     
  2. Wollongong

    Wollongong New Member

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    I have a few of them. Both to diversify income, as for entertainment. Sadly, I didn't inform myself well enough, as I thought the income of the deeds was based on the decay generated (just like with the Calypso Land Deeds), or perhaps on tax raised in the area.

    What somewhat worries me about these deeds is that the revenue we make is based on the loot people get. This worries me, because:
    1) It means we paid the Ark team money, and in return, people using their product are paying us. This isn't costing Ark anything, as the money we get would otherwise have gone to those using the landarea.
    2) This is reducing the attractiveness of said land area (less loot for the hunter/miner)
    3) Arkadia has no incentive to keep the deed holders happy. At least, no financial ones. The only way they can make deed holders happy is by increasing the loot. But that would cost them money, and bring them no gain at all.

    So no... it's not a very solid investment.
    But it is fun to have these documents stuck to my appartment wall :)
     
  3. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    The AUD income does come from tax raised in the area.

    This is how all taxed land areas work. The underground is a taxed land area. Therefore this is how the underground works.

    They could not increase the loot even if they wanted to. There are other ways to improve the popularity of a region. Arkadia has incentive to increase underground activity, just as they do all activity on the planet.
     
  4. Wollongong

    Wollongong New Member

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    Thanks for the response. I was under the impression tax was a decay based thing :)
    You tackle concern 1 and 2 quite well, but the third...

    Why would they want to? More loot is less income. What incentive do they have exactly to focus on this LA? Why not just the other areas?

    If I were to own an LA myself, I'd have an incentive to get people to my LA, as this boosts my income. But with AUD, I have no instruments to increase the popularity. And for the Ark team, it doesn't make much of a difference whether someone shoots his PED in the LA or elsewhere. At least, that's what it looks like for me (being quite an outsidere to Estates other than some deeds). Which incentive do they have for the Underground which I am missing?
     
  5. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    Happy AUD owners, and a more positive attitude towards the ark team in general by them.
    A more positive vibe is good for player retention and ultimately their income.

    Off course it would be easier for them to put a better markup mix in the underground :)
     
  6. KikkiJikki

    KikkiJikki Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    Ark Devs have an ongoing smuggler event that seems specifically targeted at increasing player activity in UG. They've hired to former players who's role is in part to design and promote this sort of event.
     
  7. Cly

    Cly Active Member

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    I believe you have sort of answered your own question, while missing a couple of key features of the Arkadian Underground.
    1) It has a very low point of entry: 50 PED for a share.
    2) It has a very large share base: this makes it easier for a very large number of Arkadian players to have "some small piece" of teh Arkadian LandAreas.

    While you are correct that as far as the Studio is concerned where you shoot your PEDs does not really affect their bottom line, it is important to understand that in this particular game perception of value is a very important - arguably of equal or superior importance to the real value since the items work with "markup" which is perceived value.

    It does not take too big a step further to appreciate that Arkadia may see the Underground as a place to build and promote the "sense of value", as well as the "sense of belonging / pride in owning" and contributing to something worthwhile which can come from a large team of players who consider that game area "their own".

    In a universe where many people constantly ply the space lanes going from event to event, there is I think a very good initiative here to give enough local events that one does not have to travel between planets or wait very long to participate in the next one (on Ark), as well as promoting the sense of value and connection to the planet that the Underground deeds stand to do in the long run.

    So I think, given that hunting on a specific land area above ground stands to make 1 land owner happy, and that having events unfold in the underground potentially makes hundreds happier (and not just the HOF looters for that matter) and builds the sense of community at the same time would allow you to see what incentives the Team has to continue promoting and running these events.
     
  8. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    What incentive does any business have to make its investors happy? Specifically, the removal of capital. It's exactly the same here. They know if the underground fails to generate an income, they will have unhappy investors, lose dedicated customers, and have less confidence in future offerings. It's in the A-team's best interest to permit all land areas to be successful.

    Also, the underground is a indoor miner's paradise. Bigger than hell, foma, and monria put together, and allowing vehicles. There's really not much chance of "no one" playing there, even if you ignore the hunting events.
     
  9. atomicstorm

    atomicstorm Platinum Member Platinum Member

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    One should not invest on impulse but rather only after having a thorough plan. This game does not lend itself well to impulse buying.
     
  10. Wollongong

    Wollongong New Member

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    While the response of Neil isn't really convincing (companies only want to make happy costumers if there is a chance of return purchases. And with this deal, they already have the money), I find the response of Cly much more convincing. Still, the incentive is indirect, but as long as the company behind Ark does indeed wish to build a community, yes...then this is an incentive.

    Still...how long will this last? We've seen the effect of changes in development staff before, right?

     
  11. ArchAngel

    ArchAngel Active Member

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    The 'incentive' for any company selling shares to consumers is the ability to sell more in the future.

    What is the incentive for you to pay back a personal loan? You build credit and are able to borrow more at a future time if necessary. The same concept can be applied to any corporation selling shares. If the shares crash, the company has no chance at getting another influx of capital for future growth. Therefore it is in their best interest to keep their shareholders happy.
     
  12. Wollongong

    Wollongong New Member

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    Are there any such plans? And if there are, what is the long term incentive once all the LA are sold? Not to be negative or to troll, but to find out. Because this is a fascinating topic (at least, for me it is) The comparison to a loan is not very strong. Actually, it is weak. IF you want to compare this to financial instruments, then it must be shares. But contrary to shares, AUD do not bring along any voting rights, they only pay dividends. This is much like a famous Dutch defense meganism, called certication. This means all shares are held by a foundation, which sells certificates for the dividends, while holdign all voting rights.

    This is one of the things which have been pointed out in the '90s and '00s as one of the reason Dutch sharemarkets were not as high as they could have been.
     
  13. ArchAngel

    ArchAngel Active Member

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    The comparison to a loan is not very strong. Actually, it is weak.

    If the comparison to a loan is weak, then what possible other reason would they be selling deeds for other than to raise needed capital? Surely not out of the goodness of their hearts.

    I'm pretty sure I did in fact compare the deeds to shares, you know, when I said: The same concept can be applied to any corporation selling shares.
     
  14. Wollongong

    Wollongong New Member

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    Good point :)
     
  15. Spawn

    Spawn Active Member

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    They are promoting the underground now with all the smuggler activity because they simply wish to sell all their AUDs. Right now the broker is still selling them and people are simply buying/selling AUDs already bought from the broker. Perhaps it wasn't such a great idea to create 200.000 deeds. But with the smuggler events, the payout goes up, and if they can compete with or payout better than CLD, then the broker will sell more deeds.
    The question is ofcourse, what will happen once all deeds are sold... Smugglers vanish never to be seen again?
     
  16. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    Good question. I think the smuggler activity will surely decrease. I don't think they planned any events in underground when they first launched it.

    If you do any maths and want to predict the future i wouldn't count the event-days in your maths for sure.
     
  17. David | Arkadia

    David | Arkadia Administrator Staff Member PAF Administrator Planet Arkadia Official

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    It was always part of our plans to run events in the underground. Much of the functionality of the current Smuggler events was in place when the underground was released.

    We see the underground as a long term opportunity for players to be involved in the success of Planet Arkadia. As the planet grows in player numbers so will the returns for the deed holders. I personally have great confidence in the future for Arkadia and in turn the underground.
     
  18. Lianara

    Lianara Member

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    Interesting read.

    I just purchased a few of these deeds, and I have been wondering if it is worth it.

    1 pec a day most days a deed isn't much. Will take a while to pay off the initial investment.
     
  19. mastermesh

    mastermesh Active Member

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    13.69863014 years... Will Entropia Universe still exist by that time? Only time will tell.
     
  20. Snape

    Snape Master of the BanHammer Staff Member PAF Administrator

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    Yes but this doesn't factor in future growth. you've seen the effect that activity and events have so extrapolate that with a growth in player numbers factored in before you write it off as a bad investment. I have faith in Dave and the team.
     

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