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Arkadia Space Station Security

Discussion in 'PvP' started by happy_hipster, Oct 29, 2017.

  1. happy_hipster

    happy_hipster Active Member

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    I have the vehicles, weapons and ped to apply this concept, but don't know about implementing it. If I don't, someone may, maybe somewhere.

    Be advised that many interests have a, well, interest in keeping things they way they are. Any new factor in the equation upsets the delicate balance of gameplay, mostly of those who have the most to lose and least to gain.

    In the chat development I got all bogged down in arrows and titles and dynamics of space pvp blah blah blah, but at the root there is the idea of security at space stations. Not a new one. But what kind of security?

    There is the free firestation model where volunteers scramble and defend the space station at their own personal cost and in the goodness of their hearts to go chase off pirates.

    Or there is the security model, a person on the space station, collecting taxes for safe travel to the planet. Dont pay, get shot down. Pay, get an escort. Still cheaper then the TP and it pays for the service.

    The question is, which one can be done? Its all up to you.

    In any event, it would be my policy, and one I would foward to any organization I put my name too, that we have a "You Don't shoot, We Don''t loot" policy so it is not about stealing from players. Taxes are not theft, right?

    Is this against any type of ToS? I was once pinned down by a pirate. Would not let me leave the SS. You can imagine why. Would not letting a person leave the SS be a violation, and if so, of what part(research)

    If it can not be made ToS friendly, then it is a non starter.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017
  2. KikkiJikki

    KikkiJikki Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    Griefing is not cool no matter who you do it to. And it tends to escalate.
     
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  3. Louise Ranavolana Brooks

    Louise Ranavolana Brooks Active Member

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    I can see echoes of the noob rig at Caly in this and we all know how that turned out.
    I cannot imagine anything so soul destroying as hanging about pinning someone at a SS.
    If it was done to me, I would go and have a cup of coffee, have a meal, read a chapter or two of a book.
    All the time knowing that there was a pirate hanging about waiting for me - me living rent free in his consciousness.
    How would he even know I was still in the SS :)
     
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  4. Granny Rowan

    Granny Rowan Active Member

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    Quote :There is the free firestation model where volunteers scramble and defend the space station at their own personal cost and in the goodness of their hearts to go chase off pirates.
    Reply:
    How do you know the person you are so keen to chase is a pirate ?
    Because someone else says so, how do you know they are not lying, or mistaken, or just want to watch the fun ?
    Because the other ship shows as red.....oh please tell me you know better than that.
    Because they have shot you, well since that can only happen after you and your friends turn up mob handed, maybe just maybe it is a worried traveller thinking they need to defend themselves from all these strangers

    TIP: Pirates rarely wait at the SS in any case, they are usually parked in PVP on the more popular routes to other planets, waiting to catch the unwary.

    Quote: Or there is the security model, a person on the space station, collecting taxes for safe travel to the planet. Dont pay, get shot down. Pay, get an escort. Still cheaper then the TP and it pays for the service.
    Reply:
    Since people that fly to space from planet have no reason to enter the SS how would they know if your 'tax collector' even exists ?
    If they end up on the space station they have either arrived from a warp ship..in which case the service providers are likely to take a dim view of your interfering with their passengers
    or..they have already been shot down..so you are too late !!
    If they pay you plus have to pay entry fee to planet at sphere, they will likely be close to the TP price. Plus they don't have to trust you and your friends - who to them are a bunch of extortionists / pirates /strangers ' Dont pay, get shot down '

    Quote: In any event, it would be my policy, and one I would foward to any organization I put my name too, that we have a "You Don't shoot, We Don''t loot" policy so it is not about stealing from players. Taxes are not theft, right?

    Reply:
    Taxes are a governmental assessment (charge) upon property value, transactions (transfers and sales), licenses granting a right, and/or income.
    Extortion (also called shakedown, outwrestling and exaction) is a criminal offence of obtaining money, property, or services from an individual or institution, through coercion. It is sometimes referred to as a "protection racket" since the racketeers often phrase their demands a payment for "protection" from (real or hypothetical) threats from unspecified other parties
    At least the pirates are 'honest' about their pvp activities and not dressing it up as a service.

    You may want to rethink your, doubtless well intentioned, plans before you get labelled as a pirate or worse as an extortionist. A pirate has a legitimate place in this game (space is pvp) but extortion would be in clear breach of the EULA
     
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  5. Yoshii

    Yoshii Member

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    Anything that is not against TOS is "legitimate". That does not equal ethical, valued, essential or good for the game.
    As for honesty of pirates sorry to burst bubbles of naive players who think pirates are magical like unicorns and all of them are inherently good. Like anyone else pirates are what they are as individuals. Some are honest, some are liars and cheats. Same with any other group in Entropia Universe.

    It is not against TOS to offer paid escort service but as has already been outlined can you compete with Mind Ark 7 ped to get safe to planet. Particularly if several of you are required to ensure safe passage from space station to planet.

    You may run into same problem as looters. What you doing is not against TOS but you are not adding any real value or useful purpose to the game for most players.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 30, 2017
  6. happy_hipster

    happy_hipster Active Member

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    It is a potential in the future for the Universe, in the colonization of space. It creates an independent society that depend on enforced taxes on people who have the money to use space. It is not something I would do, but it is something that may need to be defended against. "Security is at caly again, watch out" Everybody in space would go to a space station when they got shot down, it could create SS traders. The development of SS cities. Who knows. A one ped fee adds up. Im not going to do it. If I am lucky, I get to fly, to gun for it, on one of the three sides, but not four. The SS Security, The MS Defense or The innocent traveler. And then there are pirates, who will hang out in the dark places to waylay travelers.

    This is Entropiajobs.
     
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  7. Heidi Stassinopolis

    Heidi Stassinopolis Active Member

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    The way it could possibly work is for there to be an organised convoy system maybe?

    A lot of organising of course and not infallible but you would need I guess 3 or 4 armed quads with capable pilots as escort and then however many brave souls in the convoy protected by them.

    Risky I know but it's how actual herd creatures protect themselves against lone predators, safety in numbers.
     
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  8. Granny Rowan

    Granny Rowan Active Member

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    I very much doubt any convoy system would be effective, for several reasons:

    . To organise a convoy you would need to advertise gathering point, time and destination.
    Pirates dream, like bees to a honey pot - they would know when and where to meet in force to attack.
    Even if they are ultimately driven off by the 'protection squad' there is bound to kills, they are not exactly lacking in pvp flight skills.

    . 3 or 4 quads to protect a convoy ?
    You evidently haven't been in space for a group pirate attack, they regularly field 6 to 8 quads with perhaps a privateer to attack a
    warp ship. Even though they know the chance of loot (the passengers being logged in) is low. With a tempting group of travellers
    huddled together for 'safety', how could they possible resist ?

    . A convoy would also require several players wanting same destination at same approximate time.
    Why not just share a warp, price per person then tiny and safety far easier.
    Though tbh you only have to watch planet chats to realise how hard it is to get 2 or 3 people to travel together for shared warp.
    Even scheduled flight organisers get constantly told they are at the wrong time of day, can't they change it. Which ofc would then be
    the wrong time for those already using it.

    The biggest problem in 'organising' any protection in space or planet pvp is twofold.
    1. Trust, unless you know your protectors well how do you know they can do an efficient job, how do you know they won't turn on you, or put on a show fight which they then lose to the pirates.
    2. Human nature,
    everyone wants to go when they want to go
    to where they want to go
    for free
    and nobody listens to instructions let alone follows them.

    Jaundiced opinion much ? sure but have learned it over years of being a space transport provider, trying to offer cheap, safe passage across EU
     
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  9. Heidi Stassinopolis

    Heidi Stassinopolis Active Member

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    Well I was suggesting it from the point of view of it might be fun or add interest, etc


    More preferable than some kind of protection racket.

    I'd agree with this though, however how do all those pirates avoid this problem when making a combined attack???
     
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  10. Granny Rowan

    Granny Rowan Active Member

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    Like any team activity, be it football, ice hockey, or mountaineering, organisation comes with practice, pirates and pirate hunters practice technique, strategy and hunt skills daily. By working together in small and large groups they learn their roles, and to anticipate what other team members will do.
    While this could eventually become true of a protection squad, it will take time, and will always be hampered by those they try to protect, who are not part of a well oiled team, but random people paying scant attention to what they are asked or told.
     
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  11. happy_hipster

    happy_hipster Active Member

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    This is why I open such provoking discussions. I think quad security is thinking small. All those guns. All those gunners. What MS can hold a SS?

    What MS will hold the SS?
     

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