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Ardorjies Crazy Uneconomic Huntinglog on Halix

Discussion in 'Hunting' started by Ardorj, Jun 12, 2013.

  1. Ardorj

    Ardorj Active Member Pro Users

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    The latest run from a few days back. Nothing special, but at least it pushed the average return calculated now over the return of the Mux-2, yippi-yah-hey!

    Hunt #124: Laconian Sword

    Proffessions:
    -Swordsman (Dmg)Swordsman (Hit)Dmg/SecDmg/PEC
    Before37,259439,32806,21 (max)2,851 (max)
    After37,263139,3330
    Increase00,003700,0050
    Costs:
    -Decay
    Laconian Sword (2x)15,52200
    S.I. H.E.A.R.T.00,11700
    Bukin's Blade00,08500
    InvestaFoe ES30001,07100
    Total16,79500
    Loottable:
    Advanced Mineral Extractor00,02000
    Animal Hide00,73000
    Animal Muscle Oil03,00000
    Animal Oil Residue00,68000
    Blazar Fragment00,00029
    BLP Pack00,17600
    Diluted Sweat00,53000
    Fine Hide00,50000
    Halix Hide00,65000
    Halix Tail00,04000
    Miluca Timber02,70000
    Nova Fragment00,00096
    Paint Can (Green)00,21000
    Socket I Component00,40000
    Thin Wool00,25000
    Tier I Component00,30000
    Weak Cloth Extractor00,11000
    Weapon Cells01,16760
    Wool00,20000
    Total11,66485
    Halix: 119
    Return: 69,454%
    Music: Banquet of the Spirits = Book of Angels Volume 17, Caym

    Comments: It was a bad run, clear as that.

    Ardorj :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2014
  2. atomicstorm

    atomicstorm Platinum Member Platinum Member

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    I would be interested to see numbers on the effect of taxes on returns. There are halix on sw corner of la6. :)

    Self serving sure but I somehow don't believe you lose 4 to 5% on your loot but rather the variance of said LA is bigger.

    But then I guess this would be easy to prove.. by upping the tax to 50 or 99%. Oh well back to the drawing board. :D
     
  3. Ardorj

    Ardorj Active Member Pro Users

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    I also don't believe 100% that your returns are cut by the tax-% of the land. Maybe good to test it in another experiment and not on the ~5000 Halixes I'm going to have left on the mission after I'm done.
    I got more ideas for other experiments in my head like a) protection by armour vs. combat-fap; b) the invluence of the finisher and maybe tagger; c) the type of weapon used (ranged vs. mêlée so to speak); d) enhancers on TT-weapons.
    By the way, aren't taxed maxed at 10.0%?

    Hunt #126: Laconian Sword

    Proffessions:
    -Swordsman (Dmg)Swordsman (Hit)Dmg/SecDmg/PEC
    Before37,285439,35056,21 (max)2,851 (max)
    After37,291239,3568
    Increase00,005800,0063
    Costs:
    -Decay
    Laconian Sword (2x)15,52200
    S.I. H.E.A.R.T.00,09000
    Bukin's Blade00,08500
    InvestaFoe ES30000,99900
    Total16,69600
    Loottable:
    Animal Hide01,32000
    Animal Muscle Oil03,63000
    Animal Oil Residue00,65000
    BLP Pack01,33080
    Explosive Projectiles00,10460
    Halix Hide00,60000
    Halix Leg Fur03,50000
    Miluca Timber02,75000
    Nova Fragment00,00040
    Paint Can (Green)02,94000
    Socket I Component00,10000
    Soft Hide00,10000
    Tier I Component00,30000
    Weak Cloth Extractor00,39000
    Weapon Cells00,94110
    Total18,65690
    Halix: 111
    Return: 111,745%
    Music: Xavier Charles & Terrie Ex = Addis

    Comments: By far the least amount of Halixes killed with the Laconians, propably due to finding a rare Guardian. With crappy loot by the way, but can't complain about the return of this hunt.
    One other thing I'm starting to note is that with these Laconians I have more provitable hunts. With the EnKnuckles-A I had 5, now already at 7 here.

    Ardorj :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2014
  4. Ardorj

    Ardorj Active Member Pro Users

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    A new run from yesterday and not too well unfortuatly.

    Hunt #127: Laconian Sword

    Proffessions:
    -Swordsman (Dmg)Swordsman (Hit)Dmg/SecDmg/PEC
    Before37,301039,36596,21 (max)2,851 (max)
    After37,306639,3734
    Increase00,005600,0075
    Costs:
    -Decay
    Laconian Sword (2x)15,52200
    S.I. H.E.A.R.T.00,07200
    Bukin's Blade00,05100
    InvestaFoe ES30001,10700
    Total16,75200
    Loottable:
    Animal Hide01,16000
    Animal Muscle Oil04,05000
    Animal Oil Residue00,73000
    BLP Pack00,21900
    Explosive Projectiles00,10690
    Focus Lense Component01,60000
    Miluca Timber01,30000
    Nova Fragment00,00037
    Paint Can (Green)00,98000
    Socket I Component00,40000
    Tier I Component00,20000
    Weapon Cells01,30150
    Total12,04777
    Halix: 123
    Return: 71,918%
    Music: NoFX = The Longest EP

    Comments: Before I killed very few Halixes, now it is a run with one of the most killed. Yet none had anything better then 2PEDs, and that were only a few.

    Ardorj :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2014
  5. Ardorj

    Ardorj Active Member Pro Users

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    This run I've done sometime last week, or even before that. It's a poor, meager run.

    Hunt #128: Laconian Sword

    Proffessions:
    TD]00,0049
    -Swordsman (Dmg)Swordsman (Hit)Dmg/SecDmg/PEC
    Before37,428439,47496,21 (max)2,851 (max)
    After37,433339,4805/TD]
    Increase
    00,0056
    Costs:
    -Decay
    Laconian Sword (2x)15,52200
    S.I. H.E.A.R.T.00,06300
    Bukin's Blade00,06800
    InvestaFoe ES30001,01700
    Total16,67000
    Loottable:
    Animal Hide00,38000
    Animal Muscle Oil02,10000
    Animal Oil Residue00,64000
    Blazar Fragment00,00020
    BLP Pack00,17890
    Diluted Sweat00,73000
    Focus Lense Component01,20000
    Halix Hide01,85000
    Halix Leg Fur00,50000
    Halix Tail00,04000
    Miluca Timber01,85000
    Nova Fragment00,00057
    Paint Can (Green)00,56000
    Socket I Component00,30000
    Strong Cloth Extractor00,03000
    Weak Cloth Extractor00,23000
    Weapon Cells00,92740
    Total11,51437
    Halix: 113
    Return: 69,072%
    Music: Dmitri Shostakovich = Symphonies 1, 2 & 3

    Comments: Now the return with the Laconian is on par with the EnKnuckles-1. That is with calculation as if I've done 25 runs with this Laconian already.

    Ardorj :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2014
  6. Ardorj

    Ardorj Active Member Pro Users

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    And yet another from this weekend. A very nice run thanks to two nice loots near the end.

    Hunt #129: Laconian Sword

    Proffessions:
    -Swordsman (Dmg)Swordsman (Hit)Dmg/SecDmg/PEC
    Before37,451639,49246,21 (max)2,851 (max)
    After37,456839,4974
    Increase00,005200,0050
    Costs:
    TD]16,67000[/TD]
    -Decay
    Laconian Sword (2x)15,52200
    S.I. H.E.A.R.T.00,09000
    Bukin's Blade00,03400
    InvestaFoe ES30001,02600
    Total
    Loottable:
    Animal Hide01,32000
    Animal Muscle Oil10,29000
    Animal Oil Residue00,68000
    BLP Pack01,11410
    Diluted Sweat00,28000
    Explosive Projectiles02,13530
    Halix Hide00,70000
    Halix Leg Fur00,50000
    Miluca Timber01,80000
    Nova Fragment00,00153
    Paint Can (Green)00,91000
    Socket I Component01,90000
    Thin Wool02,25000
    Tier I Component00,30000
    Weak Cloth Extractor00,05000
    Weapon Cells00,26040
    Total24,49115
    Halix: 114
    Return: 146,900%
    Music: The Offspring = Ixnay on the Hombre

    Comments: I just need to do two more runs with these Laconians and then I've done 'm 25 times as well. As things go on like they've done so far I'll be looking at ~90% return. Not to bad I guess.

    Ardorj :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2014
  7. Ardorj

    Ardorj Active Member Pro Users

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    I finished the last run with the Laconians yestereve and realized that I hadn't posted the one before yet. It was nothing special with a nice 92% return, just like all are nothing special. Maybe that one was a bit special after all, because it is close to the overall return with the Laconians.
    Anyhow, here's the results from the last hunt.

    Hunt #131: Laconian Sword

    Proffessions:
    -Swordsman (Dmg)Swordsman (Hit)Dmg/SecDmg/PEC
    Before37,497339,52606,21 (max)2,851 (max)
    After37,501539,5304
    Increase00,004400,0044
    Costs:
    -Decay
    Laconian Sword (2x)15,52200
    S.I. H.E.A.R.T.00,15300
    Bukin's Blade00,08500
    InvestaFoe ES30001,04400
    Total16,80400
    Loottable:
    Animal Hide00,66000
    Animal Muscle Oil03,24000
    Animal Oil Residue00,62000
    Blazar Fragment00,00020
    BLP Pack00,31400
    Halix Leg Fur00,50000
    Miluca Timber02,10000
    Nova Fragment00,00088
    Paint Can (Green)00,35000
    Socket I Component00,50000
    Soft Hide00,10000
    Thin Wool00,25000
    Tier I Component00,50000
    Weapon Cells00,68810
    Total09,82318
    Halix: 116
    Return: 58,457%
    Music: Benjamin Britten = War Requiem

    Comments: Yeah, finally I'm kinda done with this Eco-experiment. The overall return of the Laconians is 92.122% and that's quite nice I think.
    I'll start making a conclusion later today or maybe coming week. All considered, the Dmg/PEC of a weapon has a huge influence on the outcome of the loot. It might get better with the Laconians then this 92% when I'll be using a finisher I think. I still have about 6000 kills left for Stage 5 I believe I'm in now, so I can continue upgrading my set-up a bit.

    I like to do experiments and mostly with hunting because I'm a hunter 90% of my ingame time. Of that 90% about 90% is for experiments, or related to experiments. Right now I'm doing another test on Hadraada with the size of the hunt (ie. number of kills). I have more ideas in my head and as of now I haven't thought which to do next time. These are, in no particulair order:

    a) Ride the Wave: first option is when in a above average 'wave' continue the run, when in a below average 'wave' stop the run and hunt something else. Second option is to continue the run no matter what to a predeterimened set of kills. I don't know fairly well how to set up this experiment yet.
    b) Armour versus FAP: Hunt a mob that is a small challenge for me and either pay for (over) protection or 'panic' heals. Possible include Evader/ Dodge gains.
    c) Weaponry used: Hunt with different styles of weaponry like Longblades, Clubs, BLP-Handgun, Laser-Rifle, Mindforce where each has (very) similair stats of Dmg/Sec, Dmg/PEC, Uses/min. Include Evader/ Dodge gains. I don't know yet if there are any options available, but with Enhancers it might be possible to go a long way.
    d) TT-Weapons with Enhancers: Buy some (Arkadian) TT-Mêlée-Weapons, pick the one(s) with the best tierrates and use different kinds of Enhancers like Economy, Accuracy and Damage.
    e) Secondary Activity: Just simply kill the mobs or do something else as well like Scanning, Sweating, Mining, dropping Decoys.
    f) Secondary Weapon: The finisher-experiment. Use different kind of finishers, high or slow Uses/min., different range of max. Dmg. and maybe different Dmg/PEC too.
    g) Each maturity her own Weapon: Simply use the same weapon for all maturities found in an area versus use a different kind of set-up for each maturities so that all can be killed in the same amount of hits.
    h) Extra Damage done to Regeneration: Take a fast regenerating mob and tickle them first with one or more (TT)-Weapons that has lower Dmg/Sec then the regeneration of the mob. This is to find out if it's worthwhile to sacrifice lower Dmg/Sec for higher Dmg/PEC of fast regenerating mobs.

    I don't have much money and not a whole lot of time either, so I'm looking at a poly-year-plan here. I would be nice however to know what kind of experiment others are interested in to see. Other ideas are welcome too ofcourse.

    Ardorj :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2014
  8. Murkalael

    Murkalael Active Member

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    I didn't read all your posts, but if you don't have I want to contribute with your tests. I'll provide you free of charge a Clerick Dagger 1A, just look for me in game between 22:00 02:00 Entropia Time.
     
  9. Ardorj

    Ardorj Active Member Pro Users

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    Thanks for the offer, but it won't be necessary. I have one myself already and although the results aren't that straight forward as I would have liked, they're good as can be. If I redo/ continue this test one day then it will be on a larger mob.

    Conclusion Part II.1

    In the first part of the conclusion with just the PowerFist
    I compared the materials gained with the Dmg/PEC of the weapons. I draw the conclusion that it's likely that with a weapon with better Eco you have a better change to loot materials with more markup. Now with the Laconians taken into the equation this has become all blurry.
    View attachment 10000
    The materials are from left to right: Halix Hide; Paint Can (Olive); Strong Cloth Extractor; Basic Plastic Extractor; Advanced Mineral Extractor; Nova Fragment; Halix Tail; Blazar Fragment.
    There isn't any good conclusion I can make out of this. The loot of these 7 materials from five weapons is just below 99PED so perhaps it was just a coincidence. I say unknown, more testing needed.

    As for the second part of the conclusion: does the Dmg/PEC influence the results? The answer is defiatly a YES, but by how much I am unsure to tell. The return of the EnKnucles-A (2,738) compared with the Laconian (2,851) is 85.650% to 91.122%. Unfortuatly, because I can't include the other PowerFists because those are unmaxed I can't say if the relation is linear or something different. Also, because of the rather small data-size a new hunt can still get the return up or down by a few percent.
    Also the Laconian has more overkill by a max. Dmg of 8 compared to 6.
    All in all I say: most likely that Dmg/ PEC is important, yet unknown by how much. Further testing with bigger (maxed-out) weapons and more data is needed.

    Ardorj :)
     
  10. Ardorj

    Ardorj Active Member Pro Users

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    The forum-update did a complete mess-update of all tables. Just made those on page 1 look good again.
    Attached picture (like graphs) are also gone and unfortuatly I don't always know what went where.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. May

    May Active Member

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    That was a nice experiment; funny that 'uneconomic' turned out to be around 90% after all. [​IMG]
    One question: what do you mean about '7 materials'? Don't they drop more different materials than that?

    About future projects:
    I am curious about e), I read some posts saying that on certain mobs it's actually worth it to use decoys.
    Which surprised me, since I've always been told they are completely useless eco wise.
    So tbh I never even tried them.

    Also recently had a discussion about d), whether it is worth it to use enhancers on TT/small weapons.
    With the high MU on enhancers, I personally think it's better to use an amp. But the counter argument was having good hunting results. Could have been coincidence, but staying stuck in old habits without reconsidering new results doesn't make sense either.
    So that would be interesting to see explored too.

    For c) I never considered the type of weapon of any influence; just the type of damage they do.
    Do you have an indication why it would make a difference? Or is that just a feeling/interest that you like to investigate?

    Always interesting to see experiments, and (disregarding the table issues) I like the amount of detail you provide.
     
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  12. Lars | Arkadia

    Lars | Arkadia Administrator Staff Member PAF Administrator Planet Arkadia Official

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    Did you have fun while doing it? *just curious*
     
  13. Ardorj

    Ardorj Active Member Pro Users

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    Ehh ... the most uneco, ie. Mux-2 has a return <60%. It is only the EnKnuckles-A and Locanians, both maxed-out, that had those ~90% returns.

    I heard the same and tried them out last week. Can't say that I am impressed by their performance. Propably I will start this second-activity within 2 months.

    I remember reading on Calypso Forum that the breaking of enhancers depends on the dmg. of the weapon. I don't know anyone who's done a good testing of this theory.

    Mostly just a feeling, comes from being a mêlée hunter I guess, while others can kill mobs before it hit him, I will never have a change of that with swords, dagger, and such.

    Thanks for the kind words. Tables on page 2 and 9 are fixed now too.

    My first thought was yes I did. My second thought was except the hunts with the Mux-1 and Mux-2. Third thought like and Halix in general are not a fun mob to hunt, 'cause they have (almost) no special loot. Concluding with the fourth I like the Hadraadaas that I am hunting now way better, because of more interesting loots (mini-globals) and way better results because of the use of a weapon with better Dmg/PEC.
     
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  14. May

    May Active Member

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    Oops yeah, I saw the 92.122% from the Laconians, and didn't read carefully enough to see that's not an overall figure for the whole experiment. [​IMG]
    Or maybe I was subconsciously wishing it to be that way. [​IMG]

    Looking forward to future experiments.