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Any hope of profit in instances?

Discussion in 'Instances' started by slither, Sep 19, 2012.

  1. cute781217

    cute781217 Active Member Pro Users

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    This is Entropia Universe you know, if today I only did like 5 instances and come to say the return is ridiculous then some people will say you know EU is dynamic you need to do enough run to balance the return, 5 instances means nothing nOOb. So you can't make everyone happy with what you did I think, people always find a way to say something.

    Almost 2 years in EU I know you need to play enough to get a proper return that's why I did 30 instances in hope to see a better overall result or maybe some items. But seems like instance doesn't work like hunting or mining at all. As Neil said maybe instance loot purely not work like hunting mobs. I don't know it is good or bad but 30 instances with only 1 has items in and that was because Arkadia boost the item droprate at the beginning. And yeah I did stop that's why I sold all my arkoins, because I figured out if I want to bid something with arkoins, then I need to clean all my storage and dig a hole as big as our universe in my ped card to do it. Anyway maybe I'm just super unlucky can't get either a proper 90% return or some items.

    Have a nice day.
     
  2. KMax

    KMax Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    Whatever, call me a nOOb if you want doesn't hurt me much. I knew when it was bad and stopped and never kept at it, to just prove that I can continually loose. I figured it out sooner based on about 7 other threads on this forum and my few experiences and lost less if that is nOOb well whatever is all I have to say. I figure I played smarter and that's all that matters for me.

    I just was trying to help by saying to stop doing something you know your loosing at continuously and them complain about it. It is your own fault you kept at it not MA's or PP's or anyone else's. I was not reading a helpful reminder from most of the posts in this thread I was reading complaining and people wanting stuff fixed asap because they refuse to stop doing a loosing activity.

    But whatever unsubscribing. Apperently I am not helping anything or anyone here. Keep on the loosing track and good luck.
     
  3. KikkiJikki

    KikkiJikki Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    It's worth trying to keep in mind that it's very easy to misinterpret the tone and intention of forum posts. That's one reason why flame wars start so easily. We're all on the same side here guys.

    It's pretty clear that TT returns on instances have been disappointing for most players and you cant reliably loot good MU stuff. But I second the recommendation to stay away from them for now if you don't like the impact on your PED card (he says with a shop full of unsold keys).

    I love that we have enough variety in game that if one aspect is pissing you off, there's always other things to try. I also like that people care enough about the health of the game to give critical feedback when its needed.
     
  4. AlexSolo

    AlexSolo Member

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    Hello,

    I can follow the feeling of people who do them solo and walk away with a hole in their pedcard.

    But as far as I know and it can be reproduced by listening to the Interviews with David Dobson where he said that the instances are designed so someone can:

    - grab his friends,
    - grab a key from the shelf
    - and just play a instance whenever people feel like it

    Some persons asked about the possibility to play them solo on the last interview and the answer was that they can be played solo.
    Ofc they can as available gear allows to do it. But as far as I know they are not designed for solo play. So if its actually good in the longterm is another thing.

    It was mentioned that one of the reasons for implementing arkoins was to make the loot better splittable to teammembers.
    You need to be in a team to enter them also and I still think for a reason.
    Maybe the statement should have been "dont go in there solo, the experience will be way different than in a team".

    If a instance 01 key got 20 ped TT and Mu+3 one person will have more initial costs to go there as if 10 people share the key.

    So if the team instances dont work out for you on solo play go there with your friends. You can do more instances if they share in.

    It should not be the goal to stay away there and leave the people with their treasure loot and keys standing dumb around.

    It would rather make sense to ask for developement of pure solo instances in the meanwhile. The demand seems to be there so no reason to not develope them.

    The more the instances get tweaked here the less challenge it will be for teams to enter there.

    I would think that solo instances will have lower TT on their keys anyways to drive down initial costs to have a way to get them affordable like the current keys are affordable more for teams.

    Dont buy high TT keys alone thats gamble playstyle.

    I hope that this hints are of help.

    If anyone is in a state of rage and not able to take suggestions or ready to change the style of his play cause of that at the moment then stay away for a while and think about it. But dont keep running with the head to a closed door over and over that only makes it worse.

    Its never too late to seek for others to buy a instance 10 key together. 12 people are officially teamsize so no one can say something if you get in there with 12 persons. I dont know if using the teamconsole to bring in 300 will be punished or anything. Could be seen as exploit ofc.

    12 in a team ensures you can do 12 team instances 10 with the cost of 1 run in there solo if the worst happens on loot in 12 runs.

    Greets,
     
  5. KikkiJikki

    KikkiJikki Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    While it's true it is cheaper to play in a team, the difference is marginal. As a solo player I take more armour and/or fap decay than the total armour/fap decay for a team. But the reality is I can kill most mobs quite quickly. Armour/fap costs are low. As a solo player I need to use higher dps owing to the time constraints and that can be at the cost of dpp => higher cost to kill. So yes it is cheaper in a team but not by a great deal.

    Total TT value of loot will be around the same as this is based on the damage done to the mobs. A team of 12 is not going to solve the issue of low tt return and mostly no MU. You will do a little better, I agree.

    Actually, from my experience, the current instances are designed to be easy for solo players given the right gear (and I am not talking about uber gear here). Mobs are mostly not at all agro allowing you to target one at a time. Gremlin\5b gives me more protection than I need against anything except the level 17 statues. (I am trying gremlin because I think Ubos do some acid) and lower level armour is fine for the earlier instances. Bosses are easy to isolate behind a gate so you can just stand back and do the damage with the eco weapon of your choice at no risk to your avatar's health.

    I actually wouldn't mind seeing the difficulty level ramped up a bit but that doesn't deal with concerns expressed in this this thread.
     
  6. cute781217

    cute781217 Active Member Pro Users

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    Sorry K-max, maybe my poor English make you misunderstand what I trying to say. Im not saying you are a noob, Im saying is when people see whining thread about bad return in PCF, they will say the sentence I typed. That was not toward to you, as you may see Noodles feel 20 instances still not enough which I agree just dont have the energy to keep trying. I do share my rezults and average loss in my posts, Im not sure if that is helpful reminder. Anyway I think people post here are basically not a noob, just want to let them know something might be wrong and they should check with Mindark. Sorry again if my poor English make you misunderstand what I trying to say.
     
  7. AlexSolo

    AlexSolo Member

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    Hello,

    good points, i believe that the cost per head are way lower in a team because I havent heard that the damage which needs to be inflicted total increases with the number of persons inside.

    That would involve for me:
    1000 ped ammo and decay and keycost caused and a return of 85% on the chests leads to 150 ped loss for one person.
    the same thing done with 10 persons leads to a loss per head of 15 ped

    so a team would be able to play 10 times more instances until everyone lost the amount of peds he would have done solo on one run.

    has anyone noticed that the hp of mobs inside a instance raises by the number of persons inside?

    a team with more persons is in the position to have more room for tactics by e.g. tagging single mobs and spiking it down as fast as possible or using support weapons systems to spike aoe around.

    so even the time needed to complete is far less. you have way more chance to loot a item with less cost per instance and less time needed.

    more room to loot more chests and the possibility of more chances to get the hands on something.

    only thing is the team needs to coordinate the damage dealt and not use the highest dps they can get on single head.

    the team can also spike 2 different mobs at a time to optimize their damage dealt. like they want to play.

    it enables persons with level 20 professional standing to play high level instances.

    i see alot advantages there instead of taking the risk on one shoulder only.
     
  8. slither

    slither Active Member

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    A team may help in higher instances but lvl 1 can be done unarmed withough needing to fap with small eco weapons. Level 4 can be done with minamal costs solo, I doubt a team would be more than a few pec better than me solo.

    As for spreading costs, that's just a smoke screen. Do you really think there's any difference between 10 men losing 15ped and one man losing 150ped?
     
  9. KikkiJikki

    KikkiJikki Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    Total damage to be dealt is unaffected by the number of players. So n players each have to only deal totaldam/n damage but also only receive totalloot/n TT. So % return is the same, modified by slightly cheaper defense costs and opportunity to use lower dps but higher dpp weapons.

    Solo play involves tactics also. Don't get me wrong, I do think you are better of playing in a team but not by a significant amount. Yes I understand and agree you can do more high level instances for the same amount of ped lost.
     
  10. AlexSolo

    AlexSolo Member

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    definately i do think that. do 10 instances alone and you lost 1,5k ped what splits in a constant team to all. if you have the budget to play them solo and change to a team will get you more content for your bucks.

    if you are only about what amount total wanders to mindark or lootpools or anything then i can only give the tip to see it as a chance to make your own gameplay more enjoyable with generating more content for the buck.

    and if you are in a team and run the 16th instance and loot that high end sword you will feel greater than having payed 16 times for it. if the sword stays inside a good soc and it wanders around from time to time that is a achievement of all and bounds together.

    that is the fist into the air. 10 guys come back running together out of that riptor head into celeste quarry "here it is" we made fire no one else.
     
  11. slither

    slither Active Member

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    Hmm, I guess you just think different to me. Or should I say, I think right you think wrong ;)
     
  12. AlexSolo

    AlexSolo Member

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    or we see different values :D

    neither path is wrong i guess. you might be able to turn a profit solo its just not as easy as a team has it.

    a team has more budget and can deliver more quantitiy.

    when it comes to robot loot i think we have a match again. dont like it. a chance to trade loot for MU is the better way ofc.

    as we lack in the brokers atm there might be more activity later at aakas and i believe the lootbox triggers more often.

    just beware of teams around they come with quantity and more time. :)

    no personal lootpool = open competition.

    i wont have the skills to craft the golden key nor the budget atm to buy it and use it but i would call the whole planet to arms to get in there^^
     
  13. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    Lol you're talking to an uber crafter there, I'm sure Slither has more budget then a few teams :)

    But seriously, this thread is about people claiming tt returns on instances are too low, most people saying this also say they haven't done enough tests to be really sure. So to me these people (including myself) know what they are talking about. All in all i would say it is more then enough information for the Ark team to take a closer look at this.

    So we shouldn't go too much off topic here.

    (can't help myself but 75% tt return with team or solo doesn't matter, it just means that if i hunted in a team i would have a lower tt turnover per instance, and it would take me longer to loose the same amount of peds. And this thread isn't about the cost of an instance, it's about the % return of an instance).
     
  14. AlexSolo

    AlexSolo Member

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    Hello,

    "a team has more budget" is still meant in comparison to a single hunters return and the return of each participant inside a team. a team will do more runs that is meant with that and deal better with the TT return than a solo hunter.

    i dont think its off topic to show more possibilities to handle TT return than to solely aim that the state gets active because a solo hunter dont wants to adapt or change gameplay for a while while doing instances which still are mainly aimed to do in a team.

    the first radio interview about them describes pretty good of what has been thought of when it comes to instances.

    teamplayers have also tt return but definaltely get more content for their TT return so this topic belongs definately into here.
    its only that the solo players here dont want to admit that a team can make more out of it.

    i know that its a really good point i brought in of how to deal with the TT return and noone has anything good to say against it here so you call it offtopic to snipe the argument down.

    if you want to gang up here to provoke only higher TT return then you can count with the fact that less items will drop cause every balancing will have another effect. "more TT return" ok but then they loot less high TT items and need to play more for a global or hof.

    and then after the next VU we will see the next postings "has anyone got items in instances lately MA saaaawckss A-Team get active nOW11!!1!!"

    btw. the topic here is named "any hope of profit in instances" so can anyone come with a concept different from leading it to TT return only?

    we are in a RCE that means every system must be created to be able to turn a profit if used at the right time or in a propper way otherwise its fraud.

    what can be a possibility to profit then? why is noone talking about that and just going offtopic into TT return?

    what has TT return to do with the topic here?

    if you think about that that involves to present strategies how to profit here and possibly you will answer that the cost per head nead to be keept as low as possible. hm a team offers for that.

    so who is offtopic here now? :)
     
  15. KikkiJikki

    KikkiJikki Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    Alex, with respect, you are being obstuse. I think OP spelt out in his first post what he meant by his topic name. And when he felt he wasnt being understood, he took to the time to clarify his intent with followup posts. And his focus was clearly TT return.

    Solo vs Team is relevant in that you can improve TT return to some degree in a team. But other than that, you are pushing the discussion off course.
     
  16. AlexSolo

    AlexSolo Member

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    KJ i have no problem if it is seen the way you describe it now. I for myself must come to the conclusion then that I cant be of help here then. I think different. TT return to low or not? cant keep it that digital. If the instances where declared as solo instances I maybe could.

    Rocktropia got instances for solo play as well as teamplay seperated. I have a look at them then. If I play them I will have a different expectations going alone in as at Aakas.

    I leave the topic now so it can be discussed about TT return of solo players.

    Good Luck on the runs to all!
     
  17. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    Personally i even think that tt returns in team are lower then when playing solo. More people means more chance of people shooting at a dead mob or each other thus increasing the cost.Maybe at instances 7 and up teams become more efficient. Would be nice to get an official reply to this thread though...
     
  18. cute781217

    cute781217 Active Member Pro Users

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    I think what Alex trying to say is solo player can do 10 instances and lost 1500 ped with no items. But if you were playing with your friends let say 3 people in total, then you can do up to 30 instances to lost 1500 ped, so you have 20 extra chance to loot some items. So I think your markup return might be better because some items looted from extra 20 instances, but I doubt the TT return would have big difference. I think no matter solo or team play in instance has no real difference, we are still playing the same system. Yeah might have more interactive with friends but the TT return would still be disappointing.
     
  19. Boardian Chilix

    Boardian Chilix Active Member Pro Users

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    i dont normally track but after reading this and do some number last two days
    quite close looks like
    final chest +-3%=( (( total damage /290 ) +key cost )*75%)-(total loot of small boxes)= ...................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................----------------------------------
     
  20. nlnforever

    nlnforever New Member

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    K-Max , you should do more research on who Slither is before posting. He is not a newbie who keeps complaining, he cycled millions of peds, enough to see which is the common loot pattern.

    I agree that the current instance system payout is at 75%. Which is not really good at all.
     

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