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Other Dear Arkadia Studios, can we please get an official comment on the bugged key loot?

Discussion in 'Bug Reports' started by Artrat, Jul 15, 2013.

  1. Artrat

    Artrat Member

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    Dear Arkadia Studios,

    May we please get some sort of comment on the obviously broken status of the Arkadian Instance loot?

    Dave Dobson mentioned in a radio interview some time back that the instance loot should not function differently from hunting loot, albeit as though it is one very large mob as opposed to many smaller ones.

    However this is obviously not the case. Those who know me from PCF will know that I rarely whine about loot, and I often come down quite hard on those who do, particularly if they can offer no proof.

    However I do have supporting data, and I'm sure anyone who has run a significant number of these keys will back me up.

    The following is the combined results for keys 9 and 10 of all players who have looted a Codex Chamber in the last 15 days (except those whose profiles have been hidden on EL). I chose these players as they were likely to represent a good sample of active key-runners, however i will if necessary repeat the sample with a wider random group. I have not intentionally ommitted any data, although I did remove what appeared to be duplicate entries.

    From my own experience, costs for running a key 9 or 10 are around the 1500 ped mark if all mobs are killed, and as little as half that if mobs are skipped. I run at about a 2.8 eco, using a setup that has produced very good results in normal hunting.

    Here is the data:

    Key 9:

    58 looting events
    Maximum loot: 1096 PED
    Minimum: 366 PED

    Key 10:

    43 looting events
    Maximum loot: 1964 PED (please not that this was the ONLY loot Higher than 1150 ped)
    Minimum loot: 478 PED

    Looking at this data, it appears that only one instance out of a hundred in this random sample resulted in TT profit. From my own results, NOT ONE of the 15 or so key 9's and 10's I have run has resulted in a TT return rate higher than 74%.

    From my extensive hunting experience, this is the sort of return rate I have come to expect at my eco if i am unlucky enough not to get any signidficant "multipliers" or globals on a hunting trip. I suspect that this is what is happening here too, that whatever mechanism that is in place for determining multipliers in instance loot is not functioning properly.

    This cannot be a normal situation, and I would appreciate some clarification.

    I realise loot is MA's territory, but these are your instances, your product, and your unsatisfied customers.

    Thanks in advance for your reply,

    Artrat.
     
  2. slither

    slither Active Member

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    I think the loot is probably working as planned, it's just that MA are charging you for an increased chance to loot an unlimited item.

    It's total BS, but that's how it is I think,.
     
  3. Lucky_A

    Lucky_A Member

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    Came back to Ark after a long break and ran a few lvl 7 instances ... 1st I was pleasantly impressed that they adjusted mob distribution and difficulty to more realistic/accessible levels. However, loot was utterly disappointing :( ... to the point where I'm not motivated to make other runs till something changes ...

    So I agree to the OP. Furthermore I'd add to the list :
    - seems key value is totally NOT COUNTED FOR in the loot returns (and we speak about quite some value higher the instance u do)
    - Arkoins vanished from loot (got NONE in several key 7 runs). Fact there is NO ARKOIN LISTING in AH atm confirms this theory.
    - loot MU is total TT crap (still wondering why the ancient arkadians hoarded tons of liver and pancreas oil in their chests :) )

    Something needs to change imho ...
     
  4. Artrat

    Artrat Member

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    That may be true, but that is not what they have said. DD has said that the looting algorithm should be exactly the same as if you where looting a very high HP mob.
     
  5. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    Good that this question is asked again, unfortunately it will probably be totally ignored as usual.

    This is incorrect, the best way to do an instance is not kill any mobs at all, that way you get the tt back from the key (100%)
     
  6. Lucky_A

    Lucky_A Member

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    And how exactly were u able to test THAT ?!?!? :confused:

    Only way I can think of is having the instance crashed while you're inside and had not killed anything, in which case u get re-reimbursed key value - agree. But do not confuse re-reimbursed value with loot value ... point remains that time after time after time I see key value missing totally from loot returns :mad:
     
  7. svena

    svena Active Member Pro Users

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    I'm still confused as to why people think key value isn't returned in loot. It is the ONLY part that is returned 100% every time.

    You can tell very easy, as the fewer mobs you kill, the higher your %tt return is. The ped spent killing the mobs is the portion that has the volatile returns. In addition, way back when they first reintroduced the beacons (instances), Kim had MA tweak it to always return the beacon tt (Key) because people bitched a ton about the low returns back then.

    Average returns on the mobs are at right about 70%. You can get 150%, 200%, or more return on them, but its extremely rare. Once every 200-300 runs.

    Its pretty obvious why this is happening. MA is trading lower %tt return for a higher chance at unL items and items with higher MU. I dislike this idea very much as you will hit a point where there are too many items in the game. Either the drop rate will fall like a rock, or the MU on the items will drop like a rock. Case in point, arkoins, the unL melee and the unL armor. However, at this point I don't know if it will ever change.

    One possible method would be to change the Aakas instance to be a hybrid of beacons and the new caly instance. You kill the mobs, get their loot. Then whey you kill the boss, you can open the chest and it will have the key tt in it. The chance of looting unL stuff would be much lower, but that should increase the %tt returns to about normal hunting levels.
     
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  8. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    Svena explained it best, but in the past it was possible to skip all mobs and go directly for the end boss. (although i think this is still possible but no idea how).
     
  9. Artrat

    Artrat Member

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    Harmony and svena are correct, it seems intuitive to me that the key value is returned.

    I'm almost certain that the problem is with the multipliers. There is almost zero chance of getting one, and in hunting it is these multipliers that bring you back to the 90%.
     
  10. Artrat

    Artrat Member

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    I don't think this is possible anymore, at least not without cheating, but it is definitely possible to skip up to half by legitimate means.

    Which is just about the only thing that can increase your returns a little (2-3%).

    Which is stupid.
     
  11. Fifth

    Fifth Member

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    Thanx to Artrat and Harmony i finally took time and examined the issue.
    The fact is obvious, there's significantly less multipliers.
    I don't care if it's intentional (i.e. tradeoff for higher chance to loot rare UL items) or if it's simply broken.

    Until this is changed/fixed there's no more Arkadia Underground for me.
     
  12. Lucky_A

    Lucky_A Member

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    Hmm... was always getting 70-95% tt return (key excluded). If what Svena & Harm are saying is right then the picture is more bleak than I expected :(

    Why should MA care about MU ?! Weren't they always saying that tt value is the only thing they care about and MU is generated by players ? Seems like a stupidity trap then :D ... paying extra extra for 1 in a million chance of a worthy loot ... and if you're not running golden door or key 9-10 (like most of us aren't) that chance is almost non-existent...

    As A-Team already stated that forum does not reflect reality(player base) don't think these threads will help much ... but on the other hand I also think the feedback is there in plain sight, in the handful of instances ran every day.... pretty far away from the original expectations I guess :whistle:
     
  13. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    One in a million is a bit of an exaggeration. I'd say it's more like 5-10% of your instances loot something interesting (not counting arkoins). There are UL mindforce chips, UL weapons, golden key parts and other odds and ends like statues. I think most of us who have run a good number of instances have already looted quite a few interesting pieces.

    TT returns though... I agree, they're too low, especially in the upper levels.
     
  14. Artrat

    Artrat Member

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    I've run somewhere between 15-20 key 9's and 10's, and countless other lower level keys. I once ran 15 key 1's back-to-back trying to loot gears.

    Golden parts looted: 0
    Unlimited items looted: 1 (Dehara Immolation Sword)
    Return including MU: 80% (incl sword at +1k, as if it would ever sell at that price)
    Net loss to date: >5k Ped.

    If the "MU return" is the plan it's not working.

    And bump, still waiting for a Dev comment.
     
  15. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    That's odd, I get a golden part every 4 or 5 runs (not counting gears), but I am not running 9 and 10 and that could be the difference.... i do them more for fun than for grinding.
     
  16. Artrat

    Artrat Member

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    Are those crickets chirping?
     
  17. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    Don't give up, the people still asking for taming might get what they want one day too :)
     
  18. Artrat

    Artrat Member

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    Chirp chirp, chirp chirp.
     
  19. Dan59

    Dan59 Active Member

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    I did 77 instances untill now.
    Mostly from Key 1 to 7 - because for those i have BP's but i paid and did several key 10 too.
    Only 1 item until now - sword.
    Only 1 key part drop untill now - ie after 59 instances.
     
  20. Artrat

    Artrat Member

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    Thanks for the info Dan :).

    Do you by any chance know what your averall TT return % was? Did you make TT profit on any of the runs?