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How to make the Economy work for all Planets and Space:By ROTM Spart.

Discussion in 'General Economy Discussion' started by Sparticas, Nov 28, 2011.

  1. Sparticas

    Sparticas Member

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    Ok we all know that the economys on all planets lack something. Even on Calypso sweat is a tough sell even at 2-2.5 ped per k. We also know that there is something lacking about the new user numbers and the #'s of users depoing on a reg basis.. Of course we have the standard hard core players. There is a Human Condition wich there are many. But the one i'm going to Focus on here is known as the "Grapevine" or "Word of Mouth". Anyone in sales knows this is the best PR/Advertisement in the world hands down, allways has been and allways will be even on the Internet. It can Make or Break any business. At this point in time it seems to be having what I call a Negative PR effect on the game as a whole. :soangry: Or a anti Social aspect where new players are coming into game and staying. What i would like to see happen is some changes,Game wide that turn it into a Positive PR or a Pro Social mode. Where new players are coming into game and staying, Having a good time getting excited about it and as a result dragging there friends into the game and staying, This is the best place the game as a whole can be because it starts something that is called exponential expansion which is a Ideal sales position to be in..Now all the Planet partners can get together and hire a PR firm to advertise and not get this kind of PR value! Ever.. Is the Best form of advertising in the world, all ways has been all ways will be. This is a 2 Edge sword, now the way things are it is in a negative mode.

    What I propose is a injection of real life into the game. It is called Fuel,Gasoline, Benzina, ect ect To make this it would take refined Oil and sweat into a refiner to make said fuel. In short it would prop up the sweat market for noobs give it some real value where a new user can sweat 4-6 days and play for 1 hunting or mining ect ect on everyone else's dime. That makes them have more fun and get excited and brings other new users in by word of mouth a PR Positive with VALUE. If i was in any of there shoe's ie: Ma's/Planet partners ect ect. I would rather pay a player for there word of mouth PR than some firm that know absolutly nothing about the game or friends or social networks or grapevines. IT is Good Cheep PR.

    Now I know I'm going to hear well it is a RCE game and we have to be carefull not to wreck it and let things get out of whack. I agree. that's why there has to be some built in controls one is all ready there. #1 BP's that take sweat for one help increse the demand it is a tool and #2 Adjustable Fuel consumption for vehicles by planet and by space that would give MA and partners Control over the value of sweat and oil for the most part. Could be said that oxygenation is Different from planet to planet and in space so the Adjustment is believable via a story point of view.

    This would also open up new points for player OPPORTUNITY via Gas stations on planets and in space which only Items that can be used or that are needed in space should be allowed public sales via a gas station or a auction ie: Fuel,Welding wire,RK's ect ect go go space station spart juice ;) the coding is feasible.
    I have been arguing this for about a yr now.. So unless i get Cruxifid for trying to get people to do the right and correct thing. I would not be living up to my name.. so give me your best shot...
    ROTM Spart :huh:
    PS: The BIG Dawg on the Block is WOW.. Would Like to see EU be Known as the Slayer of WOW.. AIM HIGHER than you currently are MA..Drop the greed lvl a Bit..
     
  2. Sakuba

    Sakuba Member

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    Total Agreement !

    I have maintained for quite some time now, That there has been a huge detriment done to the economy by doing what has been done with "Vibrant Sweat". It was bad enough in the VU 9 a server line bug allowed many people to stockpile huge amounts of sweat at no risk. This, iniatally, crashed the prices then from 5 ped per k to around 3.5 ped per k.

    With the introduction of the VU10 we suffered a large drop in Player Base dur to unpreparedness for the high end requirements of graphics, CPU and RAM required by the CryEngine2, Along with the long period of "Non Sweat Ability". I have no coubt this period would have seriously slowed the "New Player" growth rate. With the reintroduction of "Sweat Gathering" came the introduction of "Synthetic Mind Essence and "Light Mind Essence". Both of these types of "Mind Essence" have only gone to compound our slowed growth rate.

    Admittedly "Synthetic Mind Essence" has gone to putting some peds straight into the Trade Terminal and "Light Sweat" has gone to help create a new loot. However these items have also aided in slowing the growth rate of "New Players". The introduction of vehicles has only helped to compound the downward spiralling value of "Vibrant Sweat" and the slowed "New Players" and "Player Base"

    In the VU9 a "New Player" could "Gather Swear" for two or three hours and obtain enough peds to do a small hunt. By cycling their loot they were able to hunt for sometime. This suited and encouraged "New and Low-End Players" Even the "High-End" or more "Skilled Players" were able to go out and sweat to create a small amount of peds to actually do something when they were "Broke" or could not afford to do a small "deposit". Now it takes several hours to obtain enough "Sweat" and several more to find someone to buy there "Sweat".

    Not everyone is/was in the same situation as myself. I was able to stand around for up to 14 hours a day "Gathering Sweart" to collect around 10 k vials and sell it for 50 ped. Then take what I had sold my Oil and Lysterium for, as well as any other quantities of mats that I had mined and do a mining run of 100 bombs and 100 probes. Doing this still required I made a deposit from time to time.

    Having to spend 12 hours to aquire enough "Sweat" to purchase a set of Pisie Armor and an additional 12 hours to aquire an Opolo and 10 ped of ammunition to do a small hunt only create negativity from "New Players". They will lose interest very quickly and become "Non-Participants" never to be seen again.


    As for your concept on "Fuel".
    This is something I have maintained for quite some time as well. Lets face it, Oil is only required to lubricate pistons, rings and other sundry parts of an engine to reduce wear and tear on an engine. For it to become combustible enough to actually make these pistons fire, jets propel, blades rotate, it requires further refinement. So, "Yes" use the Vibrant Sweeat to further refine opil so it can be used as fuel in vehicles and help create a market to keep new players around.

    If needs be, to create a wipe of the huge amounts of stockpiled Vibrant Sweat, have a sun in a nearby solar system go super nova, creating a radiation that renders ait all useless and unusable. This would create a clean slate to start the process and level the "Playing Field" for both new and veteran Players. I doubt that there would be too many people complain about it and too bad if they do.
     
  3. Manny

    Manny Member

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    Do you honestly think that new players will appreciate to see their sweat simply gone, the hours they've spent doing one of the most boring things in EU meaning nothing? That could work if you wanted to find a way to create a mass exodus and disgust of new and old players alike.
     
  4. KMax

    KMax Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    Actually Crude Oil is distilled IRL and different levels of distillation lead to different fuel types being produced. Sure it takes man hours and construction workers sweat to build the refineries but I do no think sweat is an ingredient in fuel. LOL

    But honestly it would have been nice to see small amount of sweat used to produce vehicle fuel, I do agree. Compensate for the use of sweat that use to be used on Teleportation Chips. I currently still use my TP chip a lot still the fastest way to get around :) So I still buy sweat from time to time to make mind essence, I also pay premium price for it from new players no matter what planet I am on.

    Hopefully more BP's come out that use Sweat as an ingredient, I know RT is on the right track most BP's I've seen from there have some amount of sweat as an ingredient, maybe it is compensation for the man hours spend at the construction machine :) I know with that Skilling event they are using a lot of sweat to make welding wire so there currently is one event being run that is helping the sweat market along. Be nice if someone could constructively come up with another event like it to help increase the demand on sweat.
     
  5. Chuck Jarrdhead Wholrey

    Chuck Jarrdhead Wholrey Active Member

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    there are plenty of uses for sweat, there will always be more new players than the demand.... that is a good thing..... as for mixing with fuel, or changing anything else...... no thanks.... welding wire, essence, and a few others work just fine.... would have to consider serious balance issues if anything else is done.....
     
  6. zume

    zume Active Member Pro Users

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    Yeah, when we skill we use up a VERY large amount of RK-5's and Welding Wire. And we are up there skilling a lot! So sweat is actually becoming in demand these days..
     
  7. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    I agree with that. It's a tough issue to balance... you want to make sweating slightly profitable to give new players a chance to get some rookie equipment and explore the game, but you don't want sweating to be so profitable that it really allows any serious level of game play. I think sweating is good for new players to start getting defensive skills before they have weapons. But I also remember that when I started entropia, I sweated for like half an hour max before I was bored, and then I just went exploring, which was much more enjoyable.

    After thinking about the sweat-fuel idea for a little while, I'm thinking that implementing this across the board with all vehicles would create too much demand for sweat. I'd rather see newbie vehicles powered by sweat. Newbies would gather their own sweat and instead of hoarding massive quantities to sell to other players, they'd use it for their own gameplay. These newbie vehicles might be single-seaters or slower than their oil-powered counterparts, but they would be fun and useful to new non-depositors who couldn't afford higher powered ones.
     
  8. Chuck Jarrdhead Wholrey

    Chuck Jarrdhead Wholrey Active Member

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    hmm, slow, low tt vehic's that run on sweat for knewbs.... i may be swayed towards that... like a 1 seat runabout...

    sweating is meant to be punishing... thats by MA's design.... why else why you deposit... heh, its great to sweat for as long as you can stand.... but it is soooo mind numbing....

    maybe a newer way to sweat is needed, if an animal can no longer sweat and cool off it becomes exhausted, and mabey becomes easier to kill? there is plenty of room to play with it
     
  9. RexDameon

    RexDameon Active Member Pro Users

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    Was looking at how the free to play model has been working out for others and i'm betting that Mindark is noticing this too. Was just looking at one game that was not doing so well then went free to play and revenue went up 700%

    I dont think making money off players in the sweat model is the answer i think MA needs to come up with something totally different to get more players playing for free to get that little bits of cash from lots of players instead of the lots of cash from a small amount of players.

    with sweat its always players dishing out the cash to newbs that money doesnt come from MA ever it comes from players and realistically it doesn't really give the players who buy it anything but an extra cost to playing with little benefit.
     
  10. Sparticas

    Sparticas Member

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    Well I also Disagree with a Wipe of current sweat lvls. I do think that BP's with sweat added should at least help with current stock pile's. With vehicles using Fuel if the consumption rate for every planet and space is adjustable by MA they can Adjust how the market fluxes to current lvls and also get rid of the stockpile via a adjustment.. Do able could be coded.
     
  11. Sparticas

    Sparticas Member

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    Well I also Disagree with a Wipe of current sweat lvls. I do think that BP's with sweat added should at least help with current stock pile's. With vehicles using Fuel if the consumption rate for every planet and space is adjustable by MA they can Adjust how the market fluxes to current lvls and also get rid of the stockpile via a adjustment.. Do able could be coded.
     
  12. Sparticas

    Sparticas Member

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    Ballance Issue's it the Wine of the Day i have heard it so much..

    Re: this answer- I do think that BP's with sweat added should at least help with current stock pile's. With vehicles using Fuel if the consumption rate for every planet and space is adjustable by MA they can Adjust how the market fluxes to current lvls and also get rid of the stockpile via a adjustment.. Do able could be coded.
     
  13. Sparticas

    Sparticas Member

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    Ballance is the wine of the day.
    Re:This is the answer
    Id think that BP's with sweat added should at least help with current stock pile's. With vehicles using Fuel if the consumption rate for every planet and space is adjustable by MA they can Adjust how the market fluxes to current lvls and also get rid of the stockpile via a adjustment.. Do able could be coded.
     
  14. Sparticas

    Sparticas Member

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    Well MA may punish Poor noobs and poor players.. But there taking the beating by the Grapvine.. and the grapevine seems to be winning.. This is a Horrable PR Negative out look. Generates a neg in the grapevine and is none social positive.
     
  15. Sparticas

    Sparticas Member

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    Here is the Thing Every company has a Advertising/PR Budget the thing with the seat and Fuel is a Investment it Social PR for Exponential growth and a synergistic paradime to keep the system up and viable for new players and others that actualy put the work in.. Sweating being Social.. thats Better than and Advertising any PR firm can do.. Most BANG For the buck.
     
  16. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    Hmm... if the goal is to improve the "fun" in the new player experience so that those players tell all their friends how fun EU is, then maybe we think more about how to get new players more involved in fun activities. Sweating, no matter how profitable it becomes, is still going to be boring, tedious work. Why not instead spend more effort on fun missions or other, new, free activities that new players can do. The A-team is working hard on improving the new player experience right now, and those missions are intended for the next update in January.
     
  17. Sparticas

    Sparticas Member

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    Well the thing is at higher lvls they have to sweat more and more to make the cost of ammo ect. So they Depo, by then there addicted and have there friends on way to getting to same point. The thing is that it is the base of the social structure and doing Quests solo is really not Social..
     
  18. AttacKat

    AttacKat Active Member

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    Sorry to drop in so late in this discussion. But I failed to see the logic behind even wanting to use sweat more in-game. And in your post, you have just shown the reason.

    Why can not more PPs offer experiences like what RT did with "Hunt the Thing"? Many soc mate and myself have been shuttling many new players that are less then a week old to do that quest chain, and many are now depositers.

    How about, instead, focusing on how to make ways for people to Free-To-Play, which totally goes against the RCE logic, and focus on how to make better new players experiences with very little deposit required? Say, 10-15 USD, the avg monthly sub rate of other paid MMOs.

    With that 10-15 PED, do it as they are purchasing a starter pack. With that, give them noob clothing/armor/weapon/tools/ammo, combined, with the new player mission chain, like the Hunt, and get them totally immersed into play this game and experience things first hand. Once they completed this new experience, reward them with a few low TT normal in game items, so they will con't to play the game.

    I believe doing this will help in more ways to retain new players, then to make them to do more salve sweating and never have them get out of that Free-To-Play pitfall.

    jc
     
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  19. Ash Blankstone

    Ash Blankstone Member

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    I originally started 4 months ago, played for like 30 minutes then quit after my training sword broke on me and I had 0.03 peds in loot which I had no clue what to do with. 2 months ago I came back wanting to give it a shot again and after gaining 6 peds in ammo and an M2100 K-Max so graciously took me to "The Thing Hunt" thingamagiger and that is what got me hooked. :eek:) I was able to constantly recycle those peds on those low level mobs (which I thought was hard at the time), drive a vehicle like crazy around the world, get free oil while experiencing the PvP aspect of the game, while at the same time work as a team with people I had never met to kill a Thing and escape the cave. Starting events like that cost less than 0.25 USD per player (1 ped for vehicles, and less than 1 for free gun and ammo throughout missions). If they gave a little more it could easily be recycled and fully used. All for less than 25 cents per player.

    Games like Eve pay $9 USD to their affiliates for good word of mouth, others give free months ($10 to $15) for referring someone, 25 cents seems like a good cost to build some nice word of mouth, training and retention.

    I have sweated my share of sweat mainly to gain skill or to slow down the ped burn on a hunt and over all it has helped me get a good start but the thing event is what did it for me, and the sweat was just a bonus.
     
  20. Ash Blankstone

    Ash Blankstone Member

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    P.S. I would love to see gas stations