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Herman...what them mens????

Discussion in 'Weapons' started by dendricala, Jan 26, 2012.

  1. dendricala

    dendricala Member

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    I was wasting some time in entropedia.
    Then i decided to select the herman weapons, and to confront dmg/sec and dmg/pec

    --------------------------Dmg/sec |Dmg/PEC
    Herman ARK-10 (L) 5.1 2.838
    Herman ARK-10 Arctic (L) 10.7 2.861
    Herman ARK-10 Desert (L) 10.2 2.859
    Herman ARK-10 Jungle (L) 10.8 2.571
    Herman ARK-10 Smuggler 10.6
    Herman ARK-20 (L)----- 18.2 2.859
    Herman ARK-20 Arctic (L) 29.7 2.865
    Herman ARK-20 Desert (L) 28.7 2.865
    Herman ARK-20 Jungle (L) 31.3 2.862
    Herman ARK-20 Smuggler 30.1 2.806
    Herman ARK-30 (L)----- 34.6 2.864
    Herman ARK-30 Arctic (L) 41.6 2.869
    Herman ARK-30 Desert (L) 40 2.869
    Herman ARK-30 Jungle (L) 42.5 2.876
    Herman ARK-30 Smuggler 41.9 2.812
    Herman ARK-40 (L)----- 43.6 2.806
    Herman ARK-40 Arctic (L) 51.2 2.873
    Herman ARK-40 Jungle (L) 53.2 2.873
    Herman ARK-40 Smuggler 50.2 2.816
    Herman ARK-50 (L)----- 55.6 2.874
    Herman ARK-50 Arctic (L) 61.2
    Herman ARK-50 Desert (L) 58.4
    Herman ARK-50 Jungle (L) 63.4 3.006
    Herman ASI-10 (L) ---4.4 2.843
    Herman ASI-10 Arctic (L) 13.3 2.866
    Herman ASI-10 Desert (L) 13.3 2.862
    Herman ASI-10 Jungle (L) 13.2 2.857
    Herman ASI-10 Smuggler 13.9
    Herman ASI-20 (L) -----19.1 2.863
    Herman ASI-20 Arctic (L) 29.5 2.87
    Herman ASI-20 Desert (L) 29 2.867
    Herman ASI-20 Jungle (L) 29.6 2.861
    Herman ASI-20 Smuggler 29.4 2.818
    Herman ASI-30 (L) -----32.5 2.868
    Herman ASI-30 Arctic (L) 39.6 2.871
    Herman ASI-30 Desert (L) 39 2.869
    Herman ASI-30 Jungle (L) 39.6 2.868
    Herman ASI-40 (L) ------41.9 2.886
    Herman ASI-40 Arctic (L) 46.7 2.876
    Herman ASI-40 Desert (L) 45.5 2.876
    Herman ASI-40 Jungle (L) 48 2.876
    Herman ASI-50 (L) -----54.2
    Herman ASI-50 Arctic (L) 59
    Herman ASI-50 Desert (L) 57.8
    Herman ASI-50 Jungle (L) 60.1
    Herman CAP-101 (L) 4.3 2.843
    Herman CAP-101 Arctic (L) 13.3 2.866
    Herman CAP-101 Desert (L) 13.3 2.746
    Herman CAP-101 Jungle (L) 12.5 2.854
    Herman CAP-101 Smuggler 14.2 2.814
    Herman CAP-202 (L) ------19.1 2.864
    Herman CAP-202 Arctic (L) 29.4 2.869
    Herman CAP-202 Desert (L) 28.3 2.867
    Herman CAP-202 Jungle (L) 29.8 2.861
    Herman CAP-202 Smuggler 28.9 2.818
    Herman CAP-303 (L) ------32.2 2.868
    Herman CAP-303 Arctic (L) 38.9 2.871
    Herman CAP-303 Desert (L) 38.4 2.869
    Herman CAP-303 Jungle (L) 40.3 2.868
    Herman CAP-303 Smuggler 38.5 2.822
    Herman CAP-404 (L) 42.9 2.868
    Herman CAP-404 Arctic (L) 48.1 2.876
    Herman CAP-404 Desert (L) 46.9 2.876
    Herman CAP-404 Jungle (L) 48.4 2.876
    Herman CAP-505 (L)----------55.5
    Herman CAP-505 Arctic (L) 60.8
    Herman LAW-101 (L) 5 2.837
    Herman LAW-101 Arctic (L) 10.4 2.858
    Herman LAW-101 Desert (L) 10 2.86
    Herman LAW-101 Jungle (L) 10.7 2.861
    Herman LAW-101 Smuggler 10.2
    Herman LAW-202 (L) ------20.6 2.859
    Herman LAW-202 Arctic (L) 30
    Herman LAW-202 Desert (L) 28.7 2.865
    Herman LAW-202 Jungle (L) 30.8 2.864
    Herman LAW-303 (L) ------34.3 2.864
    Herman LAW-303 Arctic (L) 41.8 2.869
    Herman LAW-303 Desert (L) 40.1 2.829
    Herman LAW-303 Jungle (L) 42.6 2.868
    Herman LAW-404 (L) ------45.2
    Herman LAW-404 Arctic (L) 51.5 2.874
    Herman LAW-404 Desert (L) 49.2 2.873
    Herman LAW-404 Jungle (L) 52.3 2.873
    Herman LAW-404 Smuggler 50.3 2.816
    Herman LAW-505 (L) ------55.6
    Herman LAW-505 Arctic (L) 61.2 2.83
    Herman LAW-505 Desert (L) 58.4
    Herman LAW-505 Smuggler 59.6 2.95

    so all those weapons have a dmg/pec of 2.8................. that is not cheap at all, don t has any appeal from a MV point of view...and show no initiative. Guys, you can do better
     
  2. KikkiJikki

    KikkiJikki Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    Putting this in perspective...

    HEre are dpp for a few of the more popular Caly weapons:
    h400 (L) 2.883
    apis (L) 2.869
    p5a (L) 2.867
    karma killer 2.871
    Kiwio mk2 (L) 2.832

    There are less than 50 laser weapons EU wide with dpp >2.9 and once you take into account the understandably high MU, effective dpp drops significantly. There are eleven blp weapons with dpp>2.9. And number 2 on the BLP list? Ark-50 Jungle edition.

    Those Herman weapons aint so bad...

    Regards,
    KikkiJikki
     
  3. Carny

    Carny Member

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    By "ain't so bad", he means pretty damn good when you start comparing apples to apples and including MU of equivalent Caly weapons. I don't want to take the time now to post all the stats, but there are many posts here and on pcf showing the value of Ark weapons over Caly weapons in many situations.

    Thanks,
    Carny
     
  4. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    I've been using a CAP-202 Desert with A103, and for me around lvl 20 the actual dmg/pec is about 3.04, including MU.
     
  5. RexDameon

    RexDameon Active Member Pro Users

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    damage per pec really means nothing. people gotta stop thinking all the numbers can just be crunched to be eco.

    I watch my loot pretty good and i've noticed that when i use something with less dmg/pec my loot is also higher on average too per mob. When i use MF and i'm decaying my chip and my implant and using ME i have a lot bigger sized loots then when i use an Opalo.

    So dont get hung up on Dmg/pec i'd be more considered about doing overkill dmg doing 50 dmg to a mob that has 10 hp left in it. thats really where waste happenes.
     
  6. harmony

    harmony Active Member Pro Users

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    Ofc it means a lot,and ofc a lot of numbers can be crunched.Just because you can't be bothered to keep statistics and do maths, that doesn't mean it can't be beneficial for others.
     
  7. Neil

    Neil Adviser Pro Users Arkadia Adviser

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    I'd like to see evidence that less eco guns result in more loot...
     
  8. RexDameon

    RexDameon Active Member Pro Users

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    take it or leave it man i dont have time anymore to make everyone nice charts so they can believe my 8 years of experience and not having to deposit for the last 4+ years either.

    but as a short example i used a very un-eco powerfist last night and profited used un-eco swords too and profited big take the other week. used un-eco MF chips and profited.

    profiting is more about knowing when and where and what to hunt and with what equipment. It's the magical formula based on all those factors i've just not been bad at it because i have one of those rainman type brains when it comes to paterns.

    Ask Spirit he's been in team as my fapper and seen my loot
     
  9. dendricala

    dendricala Member

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    well i think you are going off topic. I was not starting a discussion about calypso vs arkadia weapons, not even about eco. I just say that would be nice to have multiple possibilities. More dmg/sec higher dmg pec or slower attack lower dmg/pec etcet
    that is all.

    note: if you consider the breer serie not all of them are 2.8 dmg/pec
     
  10. KikkiJikki

    KikkiJikki Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    You said a little more than that:
    I tried to stay on topic but when you talk about the numbers it useful to contrast the herman weapons with other popular choices. My view is there is a range of choices, taking into account the trade off between dpp, dps, range, etc, with only a couple being a little underwhelming.

    note: if you consider the herman series, not all of them are 2.8 dpp either. You can see this from examining your original post.

    Having said all that, I am quite open to more firearms being released, just as they have for blades.

    Regards,
    KikkiJikki
     
  11. Larkin

    Larkin Platinum Member Staff Member PAF Senior Mod Platinum Member

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    You heard the OP everyone. Let's keep this thread on topic. Cheers.
     
  12. dendricala

    dendricala Member

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    thx this was exctally my point. It was a constructive suggestion for the Arkadia team in effect.
    About this i have also a question: what liberty the arkadia team has in building their weapons/tools? I guess some about must be black on withe in the planet partner contract. I guess a planet partner cannot build a super uber weapon that drop each 5 min ofc, but a part the design what are the rules enforced by MA about?
    It would be very nice to have a copy of that contract :) also because over time in effect MA/ calypso had the right to create whatever weapons/tools that actually are still around and are competing with the new weapons/tools released by each new planet partner.

    DC
     
  13. KikkiJikki

    KikkiJikki Well-Known Member Pro Users

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    I doubt we'll ever see that contract. I do recall from previous discussion that characteristics of all new items have to be approved by the balancing team, but as to what criteria are applied...

    As a weapon crafter on Arkadia, sales turnover tells me that the local weapons compete pretty well with foreign items.

    Regards,
    KikkiJikki
     
  14. AttacKat

    AttacKat Active Member

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    This is from a "recalled" conversation during the initial days of planet launched with Dave ... With him saying that PP isn't really allowed to come up with any stuff that can throw the EU economy off balance, such as a super eco weapon that is 0.1 dmg/pec that can under mind all the weapons from other planets in EU.

    If we consider such is true, then it isn't just about creating uber items that can render other planets' items effectively "eco-friendly useless".

    jc
     
  15. Angel O2 Mercer

    Angel O2 Mercer Member

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    Actually, 0.1 dmg/pec would be the worst weapon ever right? you meant something like 10 dmg/pec ?
     
  16. AttacKat

    AttacKat Active Member

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    Yeah, sorry, was thinking in term of pec vs dmg ... but you got the idea ... :eek::cool:
     
  17. Beanie Bugbear Adamski

    Beanie Bugbear Adamski Member

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    And yet you can buy super uber eco weapons on calypso, seems a bit double standard to me, okay they may not drop any more, but hey are still available
     
  18. narfi

    narfi Active Member Pro Users

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    I am a number cruncher and I use Arkadia weapons for my grinding needs even though most of my time is spent on other planets.
    That says a lot for the Arkadia developers understanding of the economy and their ability to deliver what the players want.

    narfi
     
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